1981 AC: Cutting out at startup without applying gas

[Scottn59c]

Hi Guys,

I have an '81 Air-cooled Westy that has an idling issue. At startup, you need to hold down the accelerator and feed the van gas for a minute or two or the engine will cut out. One the van is warm, though, it runs fine with no stalls.

What should I try? New ignition coil? Messing with the AFM adjustments?

Thanks!

Scott
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Farfignewton!

[sjbartnik]

The *last* thing you should do is mess with AFM adjustments.

If it runs, the coil is fine.

Run through your normal tune-up checks (points, timing, etc).

But I suspect you will find your issue to be vacuum leak(s).

You may also want to evaluate the status of your auxiliary air regulator. This device sort of does the same thing that a choke does in a carb engine - it allows extra air to bypass the throttle plate to raise the idle speed when the engine is cold. If it's not opening as designed, that could cause an issue on a cold engine.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[jberger]

Most likely it is your Aux Air Regulator which allows a slightly higher idle during warm-up. They can be tested and replaced if desired.. or just keep your foot in it for a minute or two.

J

[danfromsyr]

all of the above

plus possibly a dirty/lazy injector

perhaps a slow/faulty AAR (auxillary air regulator) whose job is to provide a higher idle at cold start up. it's buried under your intake resting on the engine block

looks like this
http://www.busdepot.com/049133453-42
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[chompy]

Yes, spray the Auxiliary Air Valve(Regulator) out with carb cleaner. You can actually apply voltage to it using regular batteries(like a 9 volt) with alligator clips to see if it opens and closes correctly while off the vehicle. If you need to replace it, there are many cars that used them so they are out there.
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'81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
Manual Transmission

[Wildthings]

Adding some FI cleaner to your fuel tank every 10K miles can fix a host of ills. Compare the resistance reading of your TSII sensor with the charts shown in the manual as well. Sometimes removing the TSII sensor and putting never seize on the threads can help with its operation. Usually though the TSII sensor will give problems with a hot engine instead of a cold one.

[Buggeee]

edit for duplicate post sorry
how bout some pics though?
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[Buggeee]

Dude Congrats on the AC Westy!!!

What part of the world are you in?

How do you expect these people to diagnose fuel delivery issues without full glamour shots and a walk around panoramic of your new ride ??!!!

Lol. Lets see her!

P.S. On topic since I'm here, Bentley Manual has a great fuel diagostic procedure and all you need is a multi meter. Also download and printout the AFC Fuel Injection and Training Trouble Shooting Manual for Type 2 in the technical section and do it. This guide is absolutely fantastic, here is a link:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fuelinjection.php

Between that and Bentley you will sort it. My build thread has my efforts on my cold start valve and others do too, check it out.

First though REPLACE EVERY PIECE OF RUBBER in the fuel system and vacuum hoses, and throttle body seal, and S-boot, injector seals, and... etc., etc. Every F'n one of them - without exception. You will kill so many Gremlins that way. Otherwise the vacuum leaks will have you chasing your tail. Ask me how I know.

Once its sorted the FI rocks.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[Scottn59c]

Buggee,

Thanks man! I've been enjoying your thread and was so sorry to hear about the misfortune with the hit and run.

I'm in CA, and my van has spent its life here, mostly in the Santa Cruz/Monterey areas. His underside looks really good, and the only real rust is from bad seals on the windshields.

I will absolutely get up a post with more proper pics and an introduction to my van. Here's a shot of the old boy, whose name is "Jeddy". The poor old boy looks like he got punched hard in the face and in the gut, but luckily, I've got some experience with bodywork.

I haven't messed with the idle issue yet. Jeddy did receive all new fuel lines and filters, new vaper/vaccum lines and New belts, valve cover gaskets, seals of various types, etc. Nonetheless, it's clear there's a lot to do. I don't believe the van has had a tune-up for about seven or eight years, even though it's only been driven maybe 2000 miles in that time.

I've got an early Bentley manual (from '82, I believe) and there might be more detailed versions out there. Still, it's a good start. I'm sure I'll be asking a lot of dumb questions that the manual could sort out, but I've found the folks here to be pretty kind and forgiving.

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Farfignewton!

[Scottn59c]

Today, I took the air intake hose off to inspect it. It does have some significant cracking as you'll see in the pictures. I did order a new one for about $50 that should arrive next week.

I used some sealant and duct tape to see if I could repair the cracked one, but the symptoms are persisting: The van will start up, idle low and want to cut out unless I give it gas for about a minute.

I will follow up once I install the new elbow, but I can't help but think it's something else. Would the crack really only affect idling at startup? I am going to look into the Aux. air regulator next.

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Farfignewton!

[Wildthings]

Shoe Goo works well for sealing the cracks, it adheres better than silicone. Your boot doesn't look horrid as often they have a big long split that can open when cold causing lean running at cold idle.

[Scottn59c]

Hey Wildthings, that's exactly what I tried - shoe goo. Perhaps I need to give it more time to fully seal before I can deduce anything. And I'll replace it anyways, as that crack will just get worse with time.

If I get this sorted, I will post my findings, as I know there's another guy on this forum going through the same symptoms and troubleshooting.
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Farfignewton!

[Wasted youth]

[jberger]

You should definitely inspect the Aux air regulator. That is the symptom if it is not working right. If you get a decent idle after a few minutes of warm up but not prior... robert's your father's brother. Pull it off, and it should be full open when room temp.

The cold start valve or 5th injector only effects cold start, or restart. IIRC it ceases to spray as soon as you release the key from the start position, regardless of the thermo\time\switch operation.

J

[Scottn59c]

All right guys,

I pulled the aux. air regulator off today. It appears to be sort of half open/half closed and in a kind of "P" shape as the picture below demonstrates. I checked it with my multimeter and did get a reading. 20 minutes in the freezer, though, and one or two minutes with a blowdrier didn't seem to have any affect on the regulator opening or closing. Sprayed it down with carb cleaner too, but no difference.

Do you think it's shot? Can it be repaired or do I have to reach into the wallet for replacement money?

Thanks for all your help along the way - I am confident I am going to get to the bottom of this soon!

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Farfignewton!

[Wildthings]

That would be a typical open position. It should have voltage to the one terminal and a ground on the other terminal anytime the engine is running and after 5 minutes or so be fully closed.

[outcaststudios]

also,check the fuel filter.
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791

[jlrftype7]

[Buggeee]

Two minutes with the hair dryer is probably not enough to get it warmed up, I used an electric heat gun (at a distance) and it took some time to slowly close it. It's a slow moving item, like a glacier. But since your cold start valve is open in your picture, that is where it should be when cold. So that's probably not the source of a cold idle difficulty. As suggested, check the cold start injector that is to the left of that valve, and the thermal timer. Like said, stick a noid light (test light for fuel injectors you can get a cheap set at Harbor Frieght or your FLAPS) in the socket for that injector and have someone start the van while you look at the light. It should go on for just a few seconds and then go off. That tells you it is squirting some extra fuel directly into that main air chamber at start up to enrich the overall mixture at first.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[Scottn59c]

Maybe I didn't give it enough time to see if it would close when warmed properly. Are you guys sure that it's in full open in the "P" shape you can see in my picture? I was expecting full open to be an "O" shape.

Is it safe to put this AAR into the oven at 200 degrees? I don't want to melt or warp the plastic of the connector terminals.

Even if it still does open/close a little, it could possibly be the culprit; So many of you pointed to it right away when I mentioned the symptoms.

Finally, can one make any meaningful adjustments to the AAR by opening the one adjustable nut on the back?
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Farfignewton!