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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Hi All,
So my bus has Girling style calipers and they need revamping due to a leak.
I ordered a set of Girling style calipers from Autozone. What they gave me has the cross shaped ATE spring (7 in the diagram) so I had them take them back.
I ordered another set of Girling's from Rockauto.com and they are the same.
Argh!
Question 1: Someone told me that the calipers are interchangeable with the difference being where the brake line enters. I have braided flexible brake lines, so I'm thinking maybe I'm OK. Is that true?
Question 2: The new calipers don't come with the retainer (06) below. Can I use the ones from my Girling calipers (6A)?
Thanks!
Mark
[/img] _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles
Last edited by markd89 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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The inlet port is in a different place, but otherwise they're interchangeable as a complete unit. Can't speak to the retainers from experience but I can't think why the Girling part wouldn't work as long as it fits the ATE piston correctly -- they both use the same pads so the gross dimensions should be the same.
With flexible braided lines you should be golden on the fluid connections. I've been able to **carefully** re-bend the OE hardline to to the caliper when swapping brand to brand, but it always had me puckering my shorts during the process... |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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get a hold of Clatter. He is the last person here to successfully navigate the Girling Challenge. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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What's the reason for sticking with girling and not just getting ATE calipers? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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To answer your first question about the soft lines no. A hard line is used to enter the caliper. As far as the retaining plates go no. The Girling plates are completely different. I had to search the entire frickin planet to find Clatter a rebuild kit for the Girling calipers. And I don’t know if they were actually correct or not. If you want the easiest solution with the least expense go to the ATE calipers. Either get a new hard line bent to accommodate them or bend one yourself. There is a caveat in terms of the ATE calipers though. Places will tell you that they are the correct ATE calipers for your Bus, but....they are very likely the later Vanagon calipers that have a different location where the hard line attaches. This really is not an issue since you will be bending a new hard line. My bet is that you are receiving these later calipers which is why the hard lines will not connect properly. Rebuild kits for the Girling calipers are basically unobtanium. NOS correct ATE calipers are available but extremely expensive. Rebuild kits for the ATE calipers are readily available. So that being said I would find a set of correct ATE calipers, have them rebuilt and install them. I cannot day for certain that the connection point for the hard line is the same for the Girling and the correct ATE calipers. Hope this helps. |
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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Thanks much gents!
I took some pics. It looks like the hardline does need to be bent or replaced. You can see in the pics that the port where the hydraulic connects is in a different spot.
Maybe the trick would be to have the flexible line reversed so it's going up, then the metal line could go down to the new port location.
Then I just have to figure out the retainer plate.
_________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Busok has the stock retaining plates. A samba member was also making these in stainless which should last forever. |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3899 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:40 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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So your new calipers have ATE-style pistons? I see no reason you can't use the Girling-style retainer plates with those, unless
the pad retaining pin holes are a different size.
Or just omit the plates entirely: many have none and say they have no problems caused by that. Just make sure to
orient the pistons correctly, in either case. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Thanks again, gents!
We'll try to reuse the plates for now. I'll post back next week on how it all works out.
Mark _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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I took me forever to get Girling rebuild kits,
And when I did the quality was garbage compared to the OG parts.
Whatever ATE mods might need done, like bending a hard line or trimming a backing plate, are nothing compared to using a crappy rebuild kit.
It will be very soon that these Girlings need rebuilt,
And even though they have a bunch of new parts, and are blasted/painted etc.
A set of ATEs will go on at the time.
So don’t bother... Just replace with new ATE and be done. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Clatter, thanks! _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Posting back with the outcome...
I got the Cardone calipers from Rockauto installed and they are working nicely. We had to bend up new metal tubes as expected.
It turns out that most of the rest of the brake stuff was worn out, so unexpectedly I also got new rotors, drums, shoes, brake cylinders. It was challenging to get good quality of these parts locally but I was able to get German wheel cylinders, German drums (Zimmerman) and TRW rotors.
Back to the calipers.. These were sold as rebuilt Girlings. They are actually new Chinese ATE style calipers. I'm not sure why they want my cores back, but I will be sending them soon ($50 * 2 calipers).
The hydraulic inlet port on one caliper was machined slightly (maybe 1mm) too deep. It did finally seal OK, but the nut on the metal tube is completely flush with the caliper. The other caliper was fine.
If I was going to do this again, I would buy the calipers from Autozone, which I think are also new and Chinese and check the depth of the inlet ports. If they're not perfect, it's easier to exchange in person, also no shipping of cores.
Thanks for all the help. The bus is braking well now and no funny sounds!
Mark _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2743 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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My bus has one Girling and one ATE, and the cross shaped springs both sides.
Passes the UK MOT "vehicle safety" test which requires balanced brake operation.
I ended up making my own version of plate 6A for Girling out of some 20 thou thick stainless sheet, complete with the anti-squeal cutout. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:59 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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mikedjames wrote: |
I ended up making my own version of plate 6A for Girling out of some 20 thou thick stainless sheet, complete with the anti-squeal cutout. |
Interesting. I didn't install the pads but my friend/long time VW Mechanic said that he doesn't use those anymore and that the new pads come with plastic backs that no longer need them.
I've been running this way for a few days and no ill-effects so far.
Mark _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:51 am Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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You only need the correct retainer plate if your calipers have the OE style pistons with the cutouts. The retainer kept the piston from rotating and the cutout portion in the right position. If the new semi correct calipers have a consistently flat face you only need to use whatever noise insulators come with the new pads. |
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apophasis Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2005 Posts: 14 Location: ABQ NM
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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I have the early style ATE calipers on my '71; is there a source for those piston-locking retaining plates? I would love a stainless set, if somebody's making them. |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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apophasis wrote: |
I have the early style ATE calipers on my '71; is there a source for those piston-locking retaining plates? I would love a stainless set, if somebody's making them. |
At last chek, Bus Depot had the pad shims with the piston cut-outs. Because they had only right side shims, i.e. left inner and right outer, they instructed you to knock the tabs out through the other side of the plate to give you left outer and right inner shims.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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apophasis Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2005 Posts: 14 Location: ABQ NM
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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Amskeptic wrote: |
apophasis wrote: |
I have the early style ATE calipers on my '71; is there a source for those piston-locking retaining plates? I would love a stainless set, if somebody's making them. |
At last chek, Bus Depot had the pad shims with the piston cut-outs... |
Thanks, Colin, but just called them and they acted like they'd never heard of them, said it must have been a while ago. I'm about at the point of just making a set for myself out of stainless like mikedjames did... Seems like somebody ought to make a run of these. If I can get an original set, I'd like to copy them in stainless... Local shops have none. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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part numbers for 1971 T2 & later up to T3 ATE disc anti-rotation plates are
left 211-615-231
right 211-615-232
A quick Google found at least 4 sources in one minute worth of searching who show in stock on their webpage. There are also places who show out of stock. Prices in stock vary from $4 to $16. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22462 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: 78 Bus Front Caliper Girling ATE interchange |
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apophasis wrote: |
Amskeptic wrote: |
apophasis wrote: |
I have the early style ATE calipers on my '71; is there a source for those piston-locking retaining plates? I would love a stainless set, if somebody's making them. |
At last chek, Bus Depot had the pad shims with the piston cut-outs... |
Thanks, Colin, but just called them and they acted like they'd never heard of them, said it must have been a while ago. I'm about at the point of just making a set for myself out of stainless like mikedjames did... Seems like somebody ought to make a run of these. If I can get an original set, I'd like to copy them in stainless... Local shops have none. |
I just saw them listed yesterday when I was looking for stuff for my 74. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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