Head Gasket job — exhaust bolts completely rusted

[bobbyblack]

dabaron, I'll bite;

try getting the oiling ring back into the cylinder from underneath a van. Guess you must actually HAVE superpowers... Maybe you did bribe the boatman..

And, after you are half way through a head teardown, and still have to drop the engine, how will you keep it clean? Its a disaster in the making, that is what I mean by probably the end of the engine.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[dabaron]

[crazyvwvanman]

The cylinder can certainly be put back over the rings even with the engine still in the van. It is a matter of patience, skill, and understanding what you are doing. For sure make every effort to prevent needing to do it.

Mark

[IdahoDoug]

I've done it once in the van, and twice with the engine out of the van. I strongly suggest you take it out of the van and here's why.

Stand there at the engine bay looking down at the engine. Imagine the entire block stripped of the intakes, the water pipe, hoses, power steering pump, alternator, throttle body, exhaust, thermostat housing (nightmare), wiring harness and the heads. Imagine several days from now you are standing there looking at just the block sitting there attached to the transmission with 4 big easy to access bolts and the motor mounts with their 4 big easy to access bolts.

You'll think "Well that was stupid - I just basically wasted hours and hours dealing with tools that wouldn't fit in that confined space, broke a few bolts I now have to replace, etc. There's so little stuff in the engine bay I bet I could just loosen these 8 bolts and lower it to the ground...." Yep. But it would have been much smarter to lower it to the ground and drag it where you could work on it.

There's a bit of a challenge getting the Van's back end up with ramps so you can slide the engine out, but other than that, you take exactly the same things apart to do the job.

On the exhaust bolts - yes, totally worth buying a propane torch and heating these bolts cherry red as described. They'll come right off.

So if you can figure out a way to lower it to the ground (a couple strong buddies help - it's not really that heavy, actually) you'll be really happy you did it this way. If not, you'll be admired for your tenacity and have a Samba badge of honor! Heh.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Russpauly]

Ha, the replies and this post did not disappoint. Trust me, if I had the option to drop the engine, I would have taken that route. But alas, my tiny 400 sqft home with no yard, or garage, or driveway doesn’t allow me this luxury. I have to unfortunately wrench on this thing in tight spaces in the street.

But, all road repairs that are diy would have to be done this way anyways, so I am just getting up close and personal early on and learning as much as I can now. Maybe one day, but probably not in San Diego. You learn to cope in small spaces living in NYC, San Francisco and San Diego. This is my biggest spot yet!

As far as the bolts are concerned however, I haven’t had time yet to get back out and wrench on them. But it looks like a Dremel or Heat are going to be my best options, and it may very well be just this one that’s being this much of a pain, just didn’t have time to get to the other ones yet. This weekend however I will have some help and ample time to get some progress done on it. Just glad to get these things done and out of the way now, and not mid summer.
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition - TinTop
2.1L Watercooled
The Space man Van

[jberger]

[IdahoDoug]

Alright. Well know that myself and many others here reacted by checking what city you live in to see if there's any way they could help. If you're going to go for it in the vehicle, it's well worth buying a can of quality penetrating oil such as PB Blaster, or Kroil but don't use ordinary oil or WD40. It will get into the threads and prevent a later decision to use a "real" penetrating oil which can no longer get past the full threads. Hit every single bolt you can find every chance you get before the big day arrives. And the torch will be worth every penny as well. Keep us posted and use this thread to ask questions. No doubt whatever challenges you will have been previously overcome here by someone. It's a pretty tight knit group and we all enjoy seeing someone willing to wade right into it, because that describes each of us on our own Day 1 as well. Cheers!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[16CVs]

X2 on the Dremel tool, but one with a cord and the quick change reinforced cut off wheels are the only way to go.
Those Cut off wheels are not cheap, but worth every penny.

Stacy
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[?Waldo?]

The EZ Lock wheels are certainly quick and easy to change but it takes me <30 seconds to change one of the 'hard to change' fiber reinforced cutoff wheels. The EZ Lock ones cost ~$1 more per wheel. That's pretty good pay to change them the 'hard' way. IMO $120 per hour for the simple task of changing cutoff wheels is nothing to sneeze at.

[MarkWard]

Maybe you should skip the exhaust for the time being and see if you can successfully remove the intake. Build your confidence with successes.

What keeps someone driving and texting from crashing into the van while you are under it?
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[Tbob]

There's another tool that could help with the nuts on the studs, and that is a nut splitter. Available in various sizes(usually little, medium and big) they have a chisel tip that helps split the nut.
On the exhaust studs, consider the nuts as throwaways. Cut them off, grind them off, split them, but if they are rusted on, sometimes no amount of penetrating oil seems to get them moving. Although I do exactly, and recommend what everyone else says, about spraying PB blaster(easy to find everywhere) or Kano Kroil(harder to find, try gun shops) on the exhaust nuts/ studs as often as possible for several days before you attempt the repair, oftentimes that is not enough. If you do not have the "feel" for how much torque to put on a nut before you break it loose and not the stud, then go easy on yourself and split the nuts.
For those nuts you can't split easily, a propane torch is the next step, but will not produce enough heat to get the bolt/stud red if it is attached to something that will draw away heat, such as the cylinder head! But it does work, but you have to heat the bolt/ stud for a few minutes before it starts to move. The bolt/ stud does not have to get red for it to start coming loose, but that is a good way to know that it is hot enough. But the propane will not get you to redness, but will usually work. I have not tried the map gas thing, but it produces more heat, and more heat is better. I am assuming you do not have access to an oxy/acetelyne rig, even better, more heat. Have a couple of fire extinguishers handy. Let me say that again, have a couple of fire extinguishers handy. If you heat the bolt/stud for a few minutes with the propane torch(and I sometimes heat for a couple of minutes, the hit the fastener with some PB blaster, then heat it again. But if you do this, expect to set the remains of the petroleum based PB Blaster on fire, so maybe DON'T do this with the engine in the car. On a side note, I would not do this repair in the car if I had any other option, but that is just me. It is so much more challenging to do it in the car versus the ease of pulling the motor, it is a no brainer for me.
Once you get the bolt/ stud heated, try to loosen it. Sometimes it takes a back and forth motion to break it loose. Heat, Pb blaster, try to loosen then try to slightly tighten then try to loosen. if you feel a barely perceptible movement, STOP, spray more PB Blaster and try again. Back and forth, back and forth, more pb blaster, until you can start getting it to spin off without breaking the stud.
You are going to all this trouble to not break off a stud or bolt. Although those are solvable problems, I choose to avoid whatever extra problems if I can. Good Luck!
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[dabaron]

you can take the engine out and put it in the van to work on. make a 2x4 cradle that can be tilted (think see-saw). i'd much rather work on it in the van door than the van engine compartment.
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1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo

BiWerks Design, LLC

[danfromsyr]

more so what keeps it from being towed as abandoned once the neighbors get tired of it in the street.
seen plenty of WIPs in the pick and pull, loaded with new parts and incomplete assemblies.. projects gone dead with a parking enforcement sticker on the windshield.
don't be that guy.

[dabaron]

[dobryan]

[danfromsyr]

yeah, um no

[dabaron]

[Russpauly]

Morning Everyone!

Well, it's been a few weeks now and I figured you all were due for an update.

The update is that the old engine is out, and a new engine from a Syncro is in! The short of it is the engine had the heads replaced who knows how long ago, and that was probably the last time the gaskets were done as well -- Pitting on both AMC heads too. So new heads, gasket set, exhaust manifolds (cracked, rusted through on both) were in order. That was all until we got even deeper into the mess. The crank pully bolt was hand tightened, threaded maybe 4 threads deep, water pump needed replacing, thermostat housing was cracked, and I'm sure there's other things too I'm missing.

None of this was made any easier when my father in law, who does work on cars (mostly Ford & Honda though), decided that it was a good idea to try and tackle this job ourselves (@ 4PM on a Sunday) . Pulled passenger head off all the way off with the cylinder sleeves, pushrods in all different orders

Anyways, I had called up Mark with MarksWagen here in San Diego to do the job and advise on what we should do. Mark actually came into a mess of a job and was my savior for the Van. Not only was he there working on it, he allowed me to help and learn about the engine and the work being done, sourced the new engine, and then through 10 and a half hours of work yesterday, we had a running Vanagon again.
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition - TinTop
2.1L Watercooled
The Space man Van