Project Dugong - Syncro Bay Bus

[outcaststudios]

is it feasible to use a woodruff key to seat that spline instead of a weld?
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791

[stever70]

Keep up the good work
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my build log
http://offroadvwbus.blogspot.com/

[dawie]

Could you maybe machine a gap/groove next to the parting line, around the outer side, before welding? That should leave a gap for the welding. Less chance of cracking, and more surface area for the weld.

[outcaststudios]

that crack is from heat differences between the different metals, so unfortunately you can chamfer all you want , its not going to stop. the two metals shrink at different rates and rip apart while cooling. the fix is certainly a mechanical connection instead ,as OP pointed out upthread. im just not sure which way is best. i see that using a woodruf and a press fit is certainly tricky, but not impossible either.
_________________
'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791

[merlinsbus]

Although not obvious in the picture, there is a chamfer present. First go around it was a machined chamfer, second time (pictured) it was done with a grinder.

A woodruff might be the answer, but I am deliberating on the pin idea as well. Any advice is welcome as usual.

I'll just ad some photos of how much polyester I had on the side of Dugong. Old body shop fella must have been the big chap named "Bondo Bob", as he clearly liked to use far more than needed for a small repair.

_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[dawie]

Did you see the posting from a guy called "Jokgel" with the maroon early bay?
He did a similar project.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

[merlinsbus]

Thank you so much, I have heard of his project but couldn't find him on here as I didn't have is name!

Good info from him I'm sure, funny how he has mTDi just as I am planning. Perhaps I'll send him a PM later on.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[busdaddy]

Is there room for 2 or 3 grub screws?, either similar to the ones on the front beam, or recessed allen drive set screws? That will make it stay in there and not rotate.

As for that engine mount it'll need a light press fit into whatever you put it in, if it's loose it'll wear the bore eventually.
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[merlinsbus]

Busdaddy, Im looking for an actual value in thousands of an inch for the press fit. The mount will be pressed into a piece of machine DOM that will have a bracket welded to it to secure to the transaxle.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[KrisBalfe]

This my not be helpful, but in my first go at making my bus a syncro, to mount the front diff in the eurovan front end I used a vanagon transmission mount and cut the bracket down until it served my purpose. Maybe an option?

[merlinsbus]

Got some machining done and decided to weld the outer torsion spline on the extension piece tonight.

Extension piece made from 4340 with the outer spline section sitting on top, both parts where chamfered to allow maximum penetration.

Borrowed a good friend's electric welding turntable for this job, made it lovely and easy! Hopefully this weekend I can get a little further with the outer sections as I regroup and rethink the inner torsion housing.

Cut apart the other torsion housing I got, chucked up in the lathe to make more spline inserts.

Finished parts ready to be pressed in, now to make the new center torsion housing parts for good and then we can do some welding. However, spring plate work might continue next weekend when my order of them come in!
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[merlinsbus]

Went out to my place of work and uncovered the mill that has been sitting unused for 10 years. Blew off the dust and plugged it in, by jove, it WORKS!

I installed the surfacing mill and went at it with this fixture setup until I realized something rather interesting about the spring plates. The spline section is not welded parallel to the spring plate plane, they are slightly angled! I had to set it up with the bottom of the spline section on the table as to not loose this angle. I deduce this angle is there to prevent the torsion bar from moving in and out but I can't say for certain. My worry is that due to me extending the spline section way outboard this will exaggerate the angle and cause issues with the installation of the torsion bars, but we will see!

These spring plates are from an unknown year of bus, but we know they are not 1968-1971 and not 1974-1976. I choose them; however, because the metal proved easily welded and are the same length/profile as the 1976 that came off Dugong.

This is the prototype center torsion housing installed for test fit and for measuring the length needed for the outer spline section. The cap used is a freeze plug, should a torsion bar become rusted in place this cap facilitates access to the back of it.

The torsion bar will protrude this far from the spring plate, after my machined spring plates it measure to 153mm. To keep it simple and allow space for movement (should there be any, thinking again about the strange angle in the splined section of the spring plate) the outer spline section shall be 155mm long. I do worry about a lack of room between the dust cover (this part will be further explored soon) and the fender and I fairly certain the fender will need to be cut and reprofiled, but that is fine.

Next was a quick study of the stock Syncro shifter, we found that it fits easily. I would very much like to use the original Bay shifter if possible and it seems that with slight modification this can easily be achieved.

This particular shifter tube is very very rusted so I will have to make a new one, the good news being that a new one can be bent in any manner I like to allow clearance.

I threw the driveline in real quick to get an idea of clearance and it is lacking for the shifter tube. Some modification will be needed, but we won't know that until I have an engine and the aft drivetrain is fully mounted and hung.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[merlinsbus]

Progress has been slow lately, due to the heat and distractions. Last weekend was a moment however, I did a partial trade with what was left of the rusty Syncro.

First it had to get out of the back yard, we call to action the tractor again!

Loaded on the trailer, ready for my drive up to Seattle, once I arrived, we traded. A Syncro corpse for a AHU TDi.

This is the AHU, fairly high milage unit but should be good for overhaul later on. Now I have the engine and mounts/oil pan for the 50 degree installation too, so I can begin positioning the engine and transaxle in Dugong!

Update on the rear suspension: I have a new revision for the inner torsion housing and it will hopefully be machined soon so I can install it and get some final dimensions. Hope to have that all done soon.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[merlinsbus]

Now that I have an AHU, I need to swap over the input shaft from my scrap diesel Vanagon transaxle onto that of the Syncro.

For those who want the exact length difference in the diesel and WBX input length, it is 12mm. Here is a direct comparison.

Diesel input installed, looks like the locker is in good shape but a fair bit of corrosion and debris inside the housing.

Syncro transaxle mounted to the AHU TDi with 50 degree bell housing, oil pan and mounts. I am in search for AAZ intake, turbo and exhaust, should anyone have those please let me know!

Put the rear suspension back together sans torsion bars and had a chance to wash it on our new concrete slab!

First time Dugong has been indoors for almost ten years, on the lift ready for fitting the new drivetrain.

Found that the engine can be installed centered, which was not expected. We have still very little clearance with the actual torsion housing on the right side due to the very non-symmetrical design of the output housing on the Syncro transaxle. When my inner torsion housing parts are turned, I will take the right hand side to the mill and make extra clearance where I can. Next weekend, hopefully I will start on the actual mounts for the drivetrain, an exciting moment but certainly a challenge!
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[notchboy]

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[merlinsbus]

I was not able to source the materials for the engine mounts yet, so last weekend I decided to make my engine compartment and underside cleaner.

Conduit for heater cables, throttle cable and the shifter are all removed.

All engine baffle edging has been removed as well, just for a cleaner look and more room! No air-cooled evidence is really left now beside the hole in the forward floor panel.

Once I removed the aft most baffle edge, I found more rust in the valence. Not sure what to do there yet; however, as I plan to instal a hitch I may integrate something into the valence for increased strength.

This edge faced up after I removed the spot welded section so it had to be folded over the top.

The engine presented with much more room and a far more satisfying and fitting look. The next step in the engine bay will be to cut out the area where the filler neck and computer where located. I am reluctant on this stage and am still thinking over the best approach. Hopefully I should source the mounts I wish to use and get my material sorted soon.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[merlinsbus]

I jumped back into body work as I wait for materials for the engine mounts and also, the MOUNTS!

I find that a little patience and a good slapper can do wonders for most dents, even this formerly nasty dent.

In the theme of body work and engine conversions, it was time to tackle the corrosion in the battery tray, the everyman's trouble spot.

Most spot welds I was able to break with the wiggle technique, but the inboard flange had to be drilled out, sadly. Fortunately rosette welds are easy and look fine, in fact, three of the forward most weld on said flange are rosette welds as are many others in the engine compartment.

Next was removal of the old filler neck and computer bulkhead. I am planning to put the radiator inside the engine compartment as I have zero other places due to the front diff and driveline apart from on the front (not going for the South American bus look unless I can find a whole font clip).

Removal was tedious, but very fruitful. Luckily, the parts I removed had rust holes that I won't need to repair, haha. For those curious, I will be making up a new bulkhead to prevent ram air making its way to the fuel tank and to help negate the risk of fire.

On the opposite side of the engine compartment I will be installing an intercooler, I have a vision of a composite inlet duct to direct air through the intercooler (air to air). Pictured is an inlet duct from a Cessna 182 I was working on a few weeks back, it was my inspiration. Intention is for the inlet to be mounted just above the right side battery tray, allowing room for the Syncro OEM snorkel which will run up the same side to the upper inlet. Should any of you have an AAZ intake and exhaust, I am still looking.
_________________
"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[merlinsbus]

When I purchased Dugong I was aware of the rust, the rust that almost all buses have up north. The issue today: rockers. I figured I best jump in and figure what actually needed replaced and it turned out to be a lot.

Driver side outer rocker was completely gone when I got bought it.

I could see that the middle rocker was also in a high state of corrosion, so that was out as well.

Ouch, looks like inner rocker too!

Now, the passenger outer rocker looked fine, but was indeed riddled with holes when touched by a wire wheel. I have no before shot, but here we see the middle rocker is too, completely rotted.

Not so solid, currently not sure on what to do as most aftermarket sliding door tracks/middle rockers don't have the upper track so removal while still keeping the upper track intact is key.

This area on both sides is bad and reverse engineering it to come apart with minimal damage was a tricky job. However, I have found that if you stare long enough at any one part of the bus, the order of operations will come. Never rush into it and risk difficult to repair mistakes.

The removal of the inner and middle rocker required partial removal of the jack point. I am happy to see they sell partial jack points as these are a bugger to remove without causing extra damage.

I removed the inner and middle rocker along with what was left of the outer rocker on the driver side, tool of choice was the Blaire Rotabroach in 5/16'' and 3/8'' and a hammer/chisel. The bits did not survive this torture and will need replaced before I do the other side (too much rpm I guess, fried them up quick).

Here you can see all the holes where the spot welds which held the rockers in place where. I will be do rosette welds in place of factory spot welds with new rockers.

Lastly, I removed the lower part of both the driver and passenger side rear rockers as they had plenty of holes too. I peeled them open like a sardine can and was greeted by a cavity filled with rust flakes, completely filled!

I imagine I will be replacing the entire side skin some 12'' up from the bottom on both sides due to this corrosion and crash damage found on the passenger side. Fortunately, I have great access after removal of the ECU bulkhead from behind so any body work will be a relative breeze. Another fun thing here is that due to the torsion bars coming outboard, the rusted metal shown above by the wheel well will need to be trimmed and hopefully all the rusty stuff will just get removed altogether!
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"If I wanted a restored truck the most cost effective way is to buy one already done. My truck is special to me and the journey has enriched my life. VW people understand". -Glideking

"Always remember: others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them and then you destroy yourself" -Richard Nixon

[notchboy]

Yeah! Rust Flakes - washes down better with BEER. Lots of BEER.

Looks like all the typical spots. No windshield lip? Or is that whats for desert later?

Very nice job in opening those panels up. What mods will be needed to those wells for the new suspension?

Looking good brother!
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[kombicol]

I read somewhere the early bus torsion bar outer spline count is 48 splines
Same number as late bay inner
Anyone know if they are physically the same spline?
Might be able to machine out the spline from an early bay spring plate and weld to it.