Author |
Message |
livethevanlife Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015 Posts: 183 Location: La Paz, Baja California Sur
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:11 am Post subject: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Yesterday afternoon I stripped one of my endlinks and lost the bushings and nut. Not a huge deal, but got me thinking about upgrading to the HD Endlinks and Swaybar from T3 Technique. On my last 2wd Vanagon I had this combination and loved it, but heard that they stiffness can work against you off road and affect articulation. Is this true? How minor or major would the loss in articulation and off road performance be? Anyone running the HD endlinks and swaybar from T3 Technique on their Syncro and have feedback? Thank you.
https://t3technique.com/collections/front-suspensi...7860401329
_________________ www.LiveTheVanLife.com
www.VentureLibre.com
https://www.PeaceVans.com/baja
1991 Syncro Triple Knob Westfalia "Miki" 2.2WBX
1992 Syncro Triple Knob Tintop "Schnitzel" 1.9AAZ
1990 Syncro Rear Locker Doka Subi 2.2
1974 VW Thing 1835cc
1989 VW Carat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:37 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I would want end links that were easily disconnected for trail riding on a 4wd vehicle. You would only need to disconnect one on the syncro and secure out of the way. Reattach when you get back on the highway. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
syncroserge Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2005 Posts: 553 Location: Okotos, Alberta, Canada
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:54 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
X2 ^ I would LOVE the T3 HD Anti-roll bar with some disconnects for my syncro.
I talked to Burley maybe 10 years ago and he said he was thinking about it...
Please, please...pretty please Christopher ! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RGS Paul Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: Los Alamos, NM
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Love mine. I wouldn’t look back after upgrading. It’s also far easier to install than stock.
Paul _________________ '87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:27 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
MarkWard wrote: |
I would want end links that were easily disconnected for trail riding on a 4wd vehicle. You would only need to disconnect one on the syncro and secure out of the way. Reattach when you get back on the highway. |
Agreed.
The function of the sway bar is to limit articulation.
This is good when the van is driving "fast".
But the swaybar's entire reason for existence on the van, is to limit the suspension articulation when driving fast.
It uses suspension motion at the left wheel, (for example) to lift the right wheel and thus keep the wheels "level".
But because it's not a very smart device, it does the same when slow,
to the detriment of traction,
lifting a wheel when you need it to drop into a hole
and keep pushing forward on the dirt.
Whatever terrain there is,
that causes a front wheel to leave the ground,
That front wheel will depart the earth sooner,
and remain be higher above the ground with a stiffer sway bar,
than it would have been with the OEM swaybar.
If the bigger swaybar does not reduce traction off-road,
that means the bigger swaybar is not stiiffer than the OEM.
I don't think that would bear out.
It's bigger - it's stiffer.
And the traction is less, but difficult to compare.
Because you can't actually test back&forth between OEM and stiffer swaybars on the same off-road condition.
If you could just unbolt the drop link, wouldn't that be nice?
But securing the un-bolted drop-link out of the way is difficult.
As anyone who's broken an end-link has discovered.
Seems feasible that someone with a van on a lift, with no springs, etc.... could figure this out.
If the drop link separates in the middle, the upper half of the link can swing around and be tied to the swaybar. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4065 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I think it's gonna depend on how much hard core or rock crawling you do.
For the average rough forest service roads leaving the sway bar attached is fine. If you wanted to undo they are pretty simple.
Certainly compared to the stock setup, so no reason not to upgrade.
I put T3's HD sway bar and end link setup on my heavy Syncro Westy and love the added security they provide for curvy roads and windy conditions. Some wheels in the air on the rougher trails around here but I'm not trying to climb rock ledges or anything like that. I don't go out of my way to find gnarly stuff, just want to get off the beaten path. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
MsTaboo wrote: |
I think it's gonna depend on how much hard core or rock crawling you do. |
Yes.
As is, and always was the case.
The Highway Syncro won't notice a loss in articulation because they don't use articulation.
Rock crawling is not a Syncro stronghold.
The rock crawling that a Syncro can do....is child's play to a jeep.
Just like walking from the driver seat to the bench and making a cup of coffee is child's play to a Westy
You will definitely have to use the diff-lock in gentler situations.
But that's not a huge problem, sometimes you're thrilled to "pull the knob".
This thrill will occur more often on gentler terrain.
Dash lights illuminate....
Knowing glances from driver to passenger.
The unspoken part of the ritual.
Uh-oh better not spill all the beans....
Somebody could sell a Syncro shirt that says "Pull my Knob"
But a stiffer swaybar will hobble a non-locker Syncro.
But a non-locker highway Syncro may be more stable at speed.
Better add a gearbox temp gauge if ya wanna drive fast & far. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3425 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
From another thread
Christopher Schimke wrote: |
Quote: |
Of course, the off road articulation will be decreased... |
Many Syncro owners have expressed the same concern, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that any change in articulation is not noticed. I have been running these bars and endlinks on two of my own Syncros for quite some time. I have many, many miles of relatively hard-core off-roading with them and I have never once felt like the bigger diameter bar held me back in any way. In fact, I have been off-roading along with a couple of really hard-core Syncro off-roaders and I could go all of the places they went with no extra effort due to the HD bar being installed and no additional harshness to the ride quality. You just don't know the bar is there until you are back out on the tarmac.
. |
_________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
|
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I will hazard a guess that if the effect to the articulation is "subtle" then the effect to body roll at speed could be equally subtle.
Perhaps just a little improvement at speed is much appreciated.
It would be interesting to see a bigger swaybar that has a disconnect at the center. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Love My Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 1835
|
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:05 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Sodo wrote: |
It would be interesting to see a bigger swaybar that has a disconnect at the center. |
Why not add another knob for "Swaybar Disconnect"? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
flomulgator Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2013 Posts: 950 Location: Leavenworth, WA
|
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:17 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I have the T3 HD anti roll bar on my syncro westy and while I don't attempt difficult trails I've done a few beat up roads with decent "cross axle" bumps both with OEM and then on the same roads later with the T3 rollbar, and I can't say I notice much of a difference; I wasn't lifting wheels with the T3 that were staying on the ground before (which is the worry).
I think what's going on here is that the chassis stiffness and not-great susspension available travel of the syncro far exceed the stiffness of the OEM rollbar for wheel lift situations. IOW, if the chassis is going to start lifting a wheel the T3 HD rollbar is still so much softer than that lateral chassis torque(?) value that you'll still get full droop on the lifting wheel in most practical situations.
The situation I could envision where the T3 sway bar being observably worse is high-speed runs through potholes or other cross-axle bumps. So don't install it on a Baja desert racer _________________ She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TopBud Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2004 Posts: 1107 Location: Flagstaff AZ
|
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I have them on my heavy tin top syncro. I drive mostly desert/ high mountain roads of Arizona. I have always gotten to where I needed to go, and do not feel hindered by this set up. Sometimes my wheels come off the ground .
Super easy to install. _________________ 86 bostig SYNCRO
66 convertible Karmann Ghia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 2982 Location: MD
|
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:59 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
I've done wheeling/off roading where I would do exactly as Sodo said, disconnect one end link and zip tie it to the sway bar. That off roading is 3-4 foot deep mud/water puts, mud splashing over the roof, water coming through the doors, 4 wheels in the air, needing to be winched over rocks due to spotters poor line choice... I would NEVER put my Vanagon through that level of wheeling.
IF there were sway bars with quick disconnects, I'm only slightly ashamed to admit that yes I would absolutely buy them. But I will be the first to admit that they are bling only. I would use them on forest roads just to make myself happy though, but I know they are completely unnecessary. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RCWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2007 Posts: 182 Location: Reno NV
|
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Just installed the T3 HD Endlinks and Swaybar on the 90 SyncroWesty. The instructions and parts were well put together and was pretty straight forward on the install. More time thinking about the install than it was crawling underneath and taking action. About 1.5 hours total.
Went on a quick ride around the neighborhood and it definitively felt different around the turns. Hope to take it out this weekend for a test drive up to Tahoe and back through the windy prone Washoe Valley.
How often should I pump grease into the HD endlink?
[/img] _________________ 89 Burgundy Westy (sold)
90 Blue Syncro Westy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bill D Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2011 Posts: 38
|
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Any ideas on how the T3 HD Sway Bar and HD Endlinks will change the washboard experience??? Worse? A lot worse? (I note the HD Endlinks don't have that rubber bushing/pad at the bottom end.) I have a 90 Westy Syncro...
Thanks... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RGS Paul Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: Los Alamos, NM
|
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:04 am Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
Bill D wrote: |
Any ideas on how the T3 HD Sway Bar and HD Endlinks will change the washboard experience??? Worse? A lot worse? (I note the HD Endlinks don't have that rubber bushing/pad at the bottom end.) I have a 90 Westy Syncro...
Thanks... |
No substantial difference. _________________ '87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
|
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: T3 Technique HD Endlinks and Swaybar on a Syncro? |
|
|
RGS Paul wrote: |
No substantial difference. |
Yeah, that's been my experience too and I drive tons of washboard. Tire pressure probably makes a bigger difference. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|