Rattling/ knocking noise only when clutch is out

[thatbaldwinlife]

Hoping you guys can shed some light on this.
1987 2.2L WBX with 4 speed tranny.

At idle (more so when the engine is warm) clutch out (not pushed in) I hear what sounds like a rattle or low rumble from back by the engine. If I push the clutch in, noise goes completely away.

Last year I had the engine rebuilt by Rocky Jennings and he replaced the bearing in flywheel and when I put the motor in, I replaced the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing with parts from GoWesty.

I was assuming it was the mainshaft bearing in the tranny as the van has 245K miles on it and I knew the tranny was opened up before but just found a receipt from the PO that shows at 213K miles he had the tranny worked on and the mainshaft bearing was replaced along with other parts. The entire rebuild was only $1200 though and Sonoma VW and Import did the work.

I was just about to pull the tranny and drive it down to German Transaxle for a rebuild but now I am not sure it is money well spent.

I think I'm gonna drop the tranny and look at what I see. The tranny is a bit hard to get into 2nd gear at times and kinda whiney in 2nd as well.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[Yellow Rabbit]

I had something similar once. It was a broken spring in the clutch disk.

[DanHoug]

i can be corrected but noise in neutral is a common 'feature' of the 091/1 trans. comes from the gear clusters rattling together within the gear backlash of the input and output shaft clusters when there is no load.

my advice: "Don't worry, be happy. Drive it."

others can chime in and tell you it needs an immediate rebuild. do what makes you happy.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[thatbaldwinlife]

Read this post from an earlier thread from jberger-

"A rattling sound in neutral, at idle is USUALLY the mainshaft bearing. It sits high and dry in that condition, as do 3rd and 4th gear needle bearings. Do you hear it when cold or just at operating temp? This is not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. A truly bad main bearing whines under load with engine RPM. Depending on your engine and input shaft pulses.. you have a TDI, I would think the box would be quite noisy at idle. I found that a lumpy cam in a wbx could generate idle gear box noises while a slightly more mild cam made the noise go away.. and that is a mild mannered WBX.... YMMV"

Maybe my 2.2L RJ motor with the lumpier cam is causing the bearing or other noises? I've driven it probably 5K miles with the noise (maybe more if I didn't hear it before) so maybe I just drive it. I may drop the tranny and check the springs in the clutch though.
nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[Sodo]

When you press the clutch idling in neutral, does the rattle 'spin down' to a stop? Or does it stop the instant you put pressure on the clutch pedal?

Maybe start by looking at your drain plug magnet. If a trans makes noise, and has a hairy drainplug..... that's your cue to stop driving it - which can add a lot to the repair cost.

If your transaxle magnet is "clean" then its much less to worry about.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[1988M5]

Knee jerk answer as a mechanic is the throw out bearing. You can diagnose with a long screwdriver from your ear to various locations on the transaxle.

Brian

[thatbaldwinlife]

[thatbaldwinlife]

And as I mentioned before, the noise is much more prevalent when the engine/tranny is warm/hot. When I first start the van in the morning, I cannot hear the noise at all. If it was not for the noise at idle, I would feel the tranny is in great shape.
nate
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[WestyKlaus]

Does it sound like the noise I posted in this thread?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=631033&highlight=
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=631033&highlight=

[thatbaldwinlife]

[?Waldo?]

Does the noise immediately stop when you take up the freeplay in the clutch pedal or do you actually need to depress the clutch pedal all the way to get the noise to stop? If it stops when you take up the freeplay and just start to apply pressure then I would assume throw out bearing.

[thatbaldwinlife]

Good question. Now I am not sure but will drive it more tomorrow to get that answer.
Thanks for all of the suggestions so far.
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[thatbaldwinlife]

[MarkWard]

[thatbaldwinlife]

[MarkWard]

I see you have an engine conversion. Did you change any gear sets from stock?
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[thatbaldwinlife]

[MarkWard]

2.2 thought it was a Subaru. Anyhow, when the transmission is in neutral, and the clutch pedal is off. All 4 forward gear sets are turning at the same time, but different revolutions. If one of your gear sets has a damaged tooth, you might hear that noise. You mention 2 nd gear makes noise. That would be the suspect gear set, which unfortunately is part of the main shaft and can't be serviced except for a tear down.

So, I guess you have 2 choices. Continue to live with it or the transaxle needs to be gone through. If the tooth has been damaged, it may continue for many miles without any problem.

If a gear tooth did get damaged, the piece would have had to come from somewhere. Maybe part of the reverse gear. Sorry I don't have good news for you.
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[thatbaldwinlife]

There is no bad news here. I went into this assuming I would just spend the money at GTA for piece of mind. Then I found the receipt showing some work was done before but I am not sure the quality of work or real extent. Trying to use all the people here who are way smarter than me on transaxles before I just go dropping $1800 on a rebuild. I am leaning towards just having it done so I know it is done and done right. Thank you so much for all of your insight so far!
nate
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[MarkWard]

You should hear my racing transmission at idle. It sounds like a shaken coffee can half full of CV balls. Good luck with the project.
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