Six seater buggy build ( long term project)

matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

66 Shorty I hope the auto will stand up to it lol. My biggest concern is the weight as it is all cast iron Shocked

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66 Shorty

The motor weights about 425 lbs... Quite a bit more than a VW motor for sure! I think it's still @ 100 lbs more than a Subaru motor also, but, stock the 4.3 has more HP & torque. Mine was built up pretty stout! It's an 86 block & heads, built with a 350 engine kit... The motors are basically the same with 2 cyl's cut off. I had mine bored .030 over, heads were shaved .020, 3 angle valve job, bigger cam (Towing & RV cam from Comp. Cams), Edelbrock aluminum intake, Edelbrock carb, & a Billet HEI Distributor... I know it's gotta be pushing well over 200 HP & 200 torque...

I'm afraid it'll chew up my 5 rib Pyramid transaxle... I was going to look for a 6 rib & hope for the best, but, I'm going to save myself some heartache & just build an aircooled VW motor, I've been hoarding parts for. 92mm x 78mm stroke. I hope it will work fine & I'll be happy with it, till I can find a trans that I can afford, that'll hold up to the power without self destructing.
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Started to mount the battery and fuel cell.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Ok so got some time to play with the buggy. Made some bracing for the rear cage area so I can mount the motor. That old v6 is heavy lol.

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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Made some more progress on the buggy. Mounted the radiator ( probably will have to move the rear seat forward) and added some gussets to the top of the cage, that double as hand holds.

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kangaboy

What kind of shock/damper system you going to run on that rear end? I would imagine the stock rear torsion is gonna need a lot of help keeping the back end stable with that V6 and 6 passengers. Same goes for front.
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Kangaboy I plan on running three (late bay) KYB gas a just shocks per side on the rear. This thing is just for trail riding, and four of the Passengers are under 6 years old right now lol. If they don't work then I will have to look into something more expensive 😬.
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Well I got the rear bearings in for the stub axles. Changed out the bushings in the beam ( old ones did not fit right) and added a few more gussets; then ran out of tubing. I was hoping that more tubing would come tomorrow but for some reason FedEx shipping it back to the supplier Rolling Eyes

. Hopefully next week I can get this thing on it's wheels. Also have to call and see what's up with the engine adapter.

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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Tubing arrive today, so put more bars in on the front. Also moved the gas tank to the front. The radiator was just to close to the rear seat for my liking. To gain some room the fuel cell had to be moved, but at least the front end gets some more ballist lol.

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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

So I have a question. I feel like there is somewhere else that needs to be braced, but where? Might make a V or diagonal bracing in the main hoop behind the driver but not sure if it is needed. Where else would you guys add some bracing?
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dustymojave

I would add some bracing in the nose. An inverted Vee under that front upper cross member that you just added the 'X' behind to the dash bar., then between that and the upper rail near the beam just high enough to clear the steering shaft. These would be in 1" x .065.

The Vee behind the front seat would be good too. The back seat needs a shoulder bar to mount the shoulder belts. That should be high enough to work for adults. Then a diagonal of some sort behind each of the seats below the shoulder bars, front and back, so that not only the upper cage is rigid diagonally, but the frame below is too.

I know this is NOT going to be a race car, and some have criticized me or ignored my suggestions because they feel my recommendations for everything are to make every car a race car. But ask CBeck about what happens in a buggy on a paved road. I'm more worried about crash safety on the streets and highways than I am offroad. And this car is intended to carry your most precious passengers.
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Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Dusty Mojave. Thanks for the input, I will be putting it to use. The seat belts are going to have to have D.O.T approval on them to get this thing registered. I have found two places that sell four point harnesses that are D.O.T. approved , one sells for $200 per belt and the other for $100. I will buy one cheap set to see if they really do have a D.O.T # on them. The thing is they both say to mount the shoulder belts to the floor? It has been a while since I've installed any harnesses, but I thought they say not to go below the plane of your shoulders on the shoulder belts?
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

On a side note I got the adapter from Kennedy on Friday. So once I get her on some wheels, I will try to mount the motor. Then after that I will tackle some more bracing that Dusty suggested.

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cbeck

My shoulder belts are mounted double shear to the lower tubes and hang over a properly located tube. Passenger side visible in this shot. I chose seats that are tall enough that the harness slots are of a proper height.

Here you can see how the harness pulls my shoulders back, not down.

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dustymojave

Shoulder harnesses may be mounted to the floor IF they then pass over a bar at the correct height, like in CBeck's car. Otherwise, they should be (and this is better) mounted to a bar near the level of your shoulders to hold you back. If the belts go down from your shoulders to the floor or to/over a bar that is too low, or over a seat that is not REAL strong, then when those belts are needed, you can slide forward under the belts or if you get upside down, they will cause spinal compression and fracture...ie "broken back".

Mounted direct to the shoulder bar is better than to the floor then pass over the shoulder bar because belts can stretch under load (like in a crash) up to 1/3 of their working length. My friend has a picture of him flipping his sprint car and even though he always pulls his belts down VERY tight, in the pic his head is above the top of the cage. He spent a month in the hospital after that picture was taken. His lap belts in that car went down to the bottom rail of the frame.

DOT approved belts are best for a car driven on the street. But you MAY have to show the labels to a cop on the street who doesn't know anything other than 3-point belts. Even so, you may wind up having to fight a ticket in court. A guy I used to know got a ticket for "no belts" in his oval window Baja in Orange County (near Disney Land) from a highway patrol officer who didn't understand that a car made before belts were required to be factory installed like his '57 Bug is not required to have belts at all. The Judge didn't know and didn't care and told him to pay the fine in spite of his evidence that his car was not required to have belts yet he had 5-point harnesses in it. Rolling Eyes

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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Thank you CBeck and Dusty, I understand now. Fortunately I live in Florida so most cops are cool about car stuff. But yes I want something that has a dot # on them, mostly for the DMV for when I go to tag this thing but just in case I get a Barney fife pulling me over also. I will probably mount them to a harness bar if they are short enough. Thank you guys; knowledge is always welcome.
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Bashr52

Any concerns about cooling with the radiator that close to the rear seat?

matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Bashr52 I'm in the process of moving the radiator back some. Was originally going to move the seat forward as the fuel cell was in the way to move the radiator. Since then I have rethought that and moved the fuel cell to the front and will move the radiator back towards the transaxle. There is lots of room now that the fuel cell is up front and vapor lock should not be a problem now. As there is no hot air is being blown on the fuel tank.
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matthewl · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2014 Posts: 329

Well my tie rods and ends showed up today. For some reason they look short to me, especially the driver side. This is on a stock width beam, the rods measure 9" and 24" aren't they supposed to be 10" and 26"???? There is almost no thread left on the drivers side, the passenger is livable but doesn't seem right to me. A friend of mine bought the same set from the same vendor over a year a go and I don't remember this much thread sticking out. What do you guys think???

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jimmyhoffa

I was able to tear the threads out of one of those exact tie rods with full thread depth. I had to hit something pretty hard so I feel like it is pretty safe even hard off-road, but that was with full thread engagement. I'd get the next longer ones if I were you.

I made these little clamps to go just one step stronger, hopefully still making the tie rods the mechanical 'fuse.'

If I crash into my wood pile a second time trying to 180 into my driveway I'll let you know how it shakes out.
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Six seater buggy build ( long term project)
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