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Turn Signal headache
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

Hi
So after fitting my horn I decide to reconnect all my steering components. Once complete I set out for a test drive, but no turn signals at all.
I have hazard/emergency lights but no turn signals.
Its a 72 bus and ive followed wiring diagram and all appears ok however the turn signal switch does nothing... except give me high beam lights when selected.
All the lights work on dash when hi-beam is on (blue) and when hazards are on (green).

Can i cook my switch???

Help Sad
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

There would be some serious smoke if you did.
Is the green wire on #15 on the hazard switch?, is it powered when the key is on?, is fuse 11 doing what it should be doing?

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plimthing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

As I have power to the connections on the turn signal lever I must presume it is powered. The green wire is connected and secure.
The signals worked ok yesterday.... just stopped this evening.
What connections on the turn signal should have power? The one for the flasher should be hot... and the power coming in to provide the selected turn signal is switched? correct?

Its a bit late in the day here in blighty so im going to have to try some things tomorrow.

I have the turn signal lever removed from the steering column at the moment and im wandering: with power off (battery disconnected) and tester on power connection and one of the output connections... I should get continuity, correct? presuming ive selected the right output of course!
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

black/green/white (AKA 49a) should always show power when the key is on, the switch connects it to whatever sides bulbs you select with the lever. So if you signal right the R terminal is connected to 49a for example.
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alman72
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

just throwing it out there, but isn't this a possible symptom of a hazard switch that has popped open?
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

its 15mins past midnight.... will check it out tomorrow!
thanks for hints and tips!
just got 2 swigs of beer left then im in bed till 7am for the next episode of turn signal drama!
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

OK Guys.. and girls...
Regarding my turn signal switch... well it appears during my heavy handed messing with steering column ( sorting Horn out) I smashed up the internal plastic structure of switch so none of the contacts were erm... contacting ( except flash part)
So I have a turn signal switch in bits.. Any images of an intact one ?? Springs and balls galore! Like an exploding cuckoo clock!
The plastic is baking in UK sunshine with a touch of Epoxy Adhesive. So hopefully will be good for tomorrow.
Im unsure where the small cylindrical piece went... possible behind the ball bearing which goes at the end of the large spring for turn mechanism?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Typically the don't make these switches here in UK or id bite bullet and spend some dough...but its more fun fixing it, right?


Last edited by plimthing on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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alman72
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

oh no. your glue prob wont cut it. the pressure on that piece is huge. however, you lucky dog, a samba member is 3d printing that piece now.
edit- it looks like your white piece is missing a tab as well.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693696&highlight=
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

so are we saying my turn signal is screwed? anyone know of where I can get a replacement? part number is in photos
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alman72
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

the repop 3d printer guy I posted has both parts for you. Just a couple of years ago that was a 300 dollar switch if you could find it. I have a couple I could part with if you don't want to deal with it. both original and rebuilt with the 3dprint parts. you can do it yourself for less than 20 bucks and some sore ass fingers/hands.
edit-here is one in the classifides for 45. good deal if the plastic white piece is not cracked
edit 2- ask the seller to send a pic of the cancel nub/tab. it is usually cracked under it. here is a pic of a crack on the right, not the middle like you normally see
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

Ok my structural adhesive has set and im looking at putting it back together this afternoon.
As a back up ive ordered some parts of shapeways!
Can anyone tell me if the small cylindrical metallic piece sits behind the ball bearing???
This is going to be a royal pain in the ass afternoon Sad should be out drivin not sat in garage. Maybe I should be like BMW drivers and not use turn signals anyway!
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alman72
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

do you have 2 more springs and your cancel return tab? If you do, I can help talk u thru it
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alman72
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

if you have the two more springs with the loops on the end, and the cancel return tab, they hook like this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

not a great angle, and it is the new 3d printed part that has a flat outside compared to your orig piece... but you should get the idea
I may get shit for this next hack, but it makes the job do-able. you can try it without doing this step, but good luck to you, because I could not do it by myself..take the long spring out of the housing you repaired that is the lever of the switch. black piece. and cut 1 turn off of the spring. just 1. and put the cut end into the housing. this enables you to press the ball into the hole ontop of the spring. again, you can try this without the cut, but it makes a big diference and the turn signal works great with the hack.
the cylinder goes into the valley of the part with the cancel tab now held on with the other springs. the cylinder stands up, and it rides in the valley on one side, and the ball bearing on the other. getting all this to fit into the box is TIGHT! good luck getting the top back on while holding the ball against the spring and the cylinder while not losing the other springs that are in the wells of the black lever part under the copper contact. you will struggle, you will swear, you will take a break and come back to it. I wish I had more pics for you. If you struggle hard, I may be convinced to rebuild another for my collection and take good pics, but I think you may end up waiting for those replacement parts to make it functional. I wish you good luck.
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

yeah ive got those 2 springs..
ive had a few practice runs and its one of those jobs that either goes first time or it explodes into a million pieces!
Im going to try it first without beer then with.... worst case scenario I wait till my new 3d printed stuff arrives..
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

Those are a real SOB to get together! Must have had some kind of trick assembly jig at the factory. I've done one. Do the assembly inside a large clear plastic freezer bag - will help keep the flying parts in check.
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plimthing
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

***Update***
Turn Signal Switch is assembled, tabs locked down and it works! For now !
Thanks for help and photo's, ive got my 3d printed parts on the way for a back up just in case.
For any one who's about to tackle this job, I used 2" mini G clamps to help hold the ridiculous spring force back. Then it was a case of lining everything up and squeezing into place and holding with another clamp whilst I tapped tabs down. Don't forget to disconnect battery boys and girls!
Thanks again to all who contributed.
Happy Travelling
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daithi
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

Hi, I need your help good people !

I'm rebuilding mine now but I'm confused on a couple of things, we originally took it apart after the indicators stopped working to find out some things had melted in there, we put it back together so that i could keep using the full headlight beam, which still worked. Nils kindly fashioned the part I needed and after a bit of a delay I've got around to taking it all apart and am ready to put it all back together. So you can see i've taken all the contacts off the original black base and put them on the new 3d printed white one.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So now my questions are

1/ as you can see from the next photo I have the spring and the cylindrical metal part to put back in, but I see mentions of a ball bearing, have i lost a ball bearing? If so where is it meant to go and what size is it?

2/ What are the two clips in the photo for ? I left them out when putting it back together previously and have no memory of where they go

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alman72
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

those clips are teasing me. I should know. I will check when I get home.

the ball bearing fits inside the signal handle, the black piece in the lower right of your photo. it sits on top of the spring and when compressed is inside the hole. before you go out looking for a replacement, tap the lever on the counter and see if the ball is hiding in there.
edit-the clips may sit on the springs on the handle part too. there should be 2 more tiny springs that fit into the holes on the black part pictured lower right
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daithi
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

alman72 wrote:
those clips are teasing me. I should know. I will check when I get home.

the ball bearing fits inside the signal handle, the black piece in the lower right of your photo. it sits on top of the spring and when compressed is inside the hole. before you go out looking for a replacement, tap the lever on the counter and see if the ball is hiding in there.
edit-the clips may sit on the springs on the handle part too. there should be 2 more tiny springs that fit into the holes on the black part pictured lower right


Thanks Alman, I'm still a bit confused (I'm easily confused!) I thought that where you are saying the ball bearing goes is where the cylindrical metal bit goes? If not where does the cylindrical piece go?
There are two small springs on the handle in the photo, are you saying there should be 4 in total? thank you.
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alman72
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Turn Signal headache Reply with quote

daithi wrote:
alman72 wrote:
those clips are teasing me. I should know. I will check when I get home.

the ball bearing fits inside the signal handle, the black piece in the lower right of your photo. it sits on top of the spring and when compressed is inside the hole. before you go out looking for a replacement, tap the lever on the counter and see if the ball is hiding in there.
edit-the clips may sit on the springs on the handle part too. there should be 2 more tiny springs that fit into the holes on the black part pictured lower right


Thanks Alman, I'm still a bit confused (I'm easily confused!) I thought that where you are saying the ball bearing goes is where the cylindrical metal bit goes? If not where does the cylindrical piece go?
There are two small springs on the handle in the photo, are you saying there should be 4 in total? thank you.


yes, 4 small springs
the cylinder rests in the valley of the part you glued together, the part that cracks and is visable from the outside....
the ball rubs on the cylinder wall, and the cylinder rides in the valley.
edit-the part in the upper right, on the inside as pictured, under the cancel tab.....clear as mud?


Last edited by alman72 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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