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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:25 am Post subject: Transmission holes. |
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Can anyone shed light on what these holes that are up in the nose area are for? (Pictured) They are in the section which the nose cone mounts to. (gear selector section?) They look almost like breather holes. I'm in the process of replacing gaskets and just noticed I can see into the cavity where the shift selector shafts run, and whatever plug like things were in there are pretty
well worn. There's also a little cork (?) plug right around the corner from the holes.
Tranny was shifting fine- no issues, just leaking. I can't seem to locate any parts that would go into them on Jbugs, Appletree, or the EMPI catalog. TIA. -Mark
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Detent Plugs..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673668
As opposed to trans axle disassembly to correct broken or missing plugs leaks, there have been numerous cases of simply cleaning them out and sealing with a wooden dowels or plastic plugs and high quality sealer externally.. or sealer alone.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200 _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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ZEKE65 Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2018 Posts: 334 Location: Right Coast, Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Has anyone tried tapping these holes so a threaded removeable plug can be installed? _________________ 1965 VW Sedan, 1968 C10 Step BB, 99 C5 |
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Thanks for the replies!! I had no idea the terminology "detent plugs" to use to search for the answer!
Seems very strange that the engineers felt that a spring and ball should go in here behind a "plug" which can just rot out. Then be cleaned out and plugged up without the springs/balls and still be fine... |
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Seems lots refer to Weddle Industries for the parts. They have everything, including a "sleeve" for the spring that isn't in the exploded parts view. Wonder what's with that...
https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000287/1001285 |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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ladon67 wrote: |
Seems very strange that the engineers felt that a spring and ball should go in here behind a "plug" which can just rot out. Then be cleaned out and plugged up without the springs/balls and still be fine... |
The plugs are to seal the detent ASSEMBLY passage.. the ball and springs are still very much required for gear selection and shift rail detents.
Spring goes in the detent passage.. then the ball.. compress the spring and ball.. shift rail is placed in its rail passage trapping the ball and spring. .
Then the plug.. simply plugs the detent ASSEMBLY passage.hole..
It does nothing else.
Hence why.. no need to disassemble a good working trans axle if its only weeping.. seal em up.
And yes... they can be threaded and plugged as well.. but would be a pain in the ass to do in the car. .
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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ladon67 wrote: |
Seems very strange that the engineers felt that a spring and ball should go in here behind a "plug" which can just rot out. Then be cleaned out and plugged up without the springs/balls and still be fine... |
Each spring and ball goes in the hole before the shift rod is slid in and thus held trapped by the rod and not the plug as you suggest.
IMHO there is no need to tap for a threaded plug, a soft plug works just fine.
Worthy to note is aftermarket replacements are made of aluminum and much less prone to degrading and popping out like the OG plastic versions. _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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I was recently well informed on just this subject. Here is the thread and the part numbers. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
ladon67 wrote: |
Seems very strange that the engineers felt that a spring and ball should go in here behind a "plug" which can just rot out. Then be cleaned out and plugged up without the springs/balls and still be fine... |
The plugs are to seal the detent ASSEMBLY passage.. the ball and springs are still very much required for gear selection and shift rail detents.
Spring goes in the detent passage.. then the ball.. compress the spring and ball.. shift rail is placed in its rail passage trapping the ball and spring. .
Then the plug.. simply plugs the detent ASSEMBLY passage.hole..
It does nothing else.
Hence why.. no need to disassemble a good working trans axle if its only weeping.. seal em up.
And yes... they can be threaded and plugged as well.. but would be a pain in the ass to do in the car. .
. |
Very strange that my tranny was shifting fine yet all 3 ball bearings and springs were gone! Holes were filled with a tranny fluid/road grime mix!!
I cleaned them out and ordered new ones from Weddle. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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ladon67 wrote: |
Very strange that my tranny was shifting fine yet all 3 ball bearings and springs were gone! Holes were filled with a tranny fluid/road grime mix!!
I cleaned them out and ordered new ones from Weddle. |
The detent spring and balls are not accessible externally by simply removing the plugs. They do not fall out or eject themselves if the plugs deteriorate or are missing..
Did you disassemble the trans axle completely and remove the shift rails from their passage bores??
That's the ONLY way to see ... find .... the detent springs and balls.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Volkswagnut- no, I didn't disassemble! All I did was pop off the nose cone to change the gasket. I didn't even realize the holes were there until I was cleaning it up close and realized I could see the shift rails. So you're saying I can't just pop the springs/ball bearings in and plug it? Where did the other ones go if I didn't removed them?? UGH!!! |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5481 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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ladon67 wrote: |
Volkswagnut- no, I didn't disassemble! All I did was pop off the nose cone to change the gasket. I didn't even realize the holes were there until I was cleaning it up close and realized I could see the shift rails. So you're saying I can't just pop the springs/ball bearings in and plug it? Where did the other ones go if I didn't removed them?? UGH!!! |
The springs and balls are still inside your transaxle. They are on the other side of the shift rods you see in the open holes, farther inside the transaxle. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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EVfun wrote: |
The springs and balls are still inside your transaxle. They are on the other side of the shift rods you see in the open holes, farther inside the transaxle. |
Yep.. exactly what we've been posting above.. but in different terms..
ladon67 wrote: |
Volkswagnut- no, I didn't disassemble! All I did was pop off the nose cone to change the gasket. I didn't even realize the holes were there until I was cleaning it up close and realized I could see the shift rails. So you're saying I can't just pop the springs/ball bearings in and plug it? Where did the other ones go if I didn't removed them?? UGH!!! |
The Detent springs and balls are behind the shift rails INTERNALLY in their bores.. you have not disturbed them.
Clean out the oil and debris from the passages and install the plugs.. .. and you can move on..
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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WHEW!!!! Thanks!!! |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Make sure you get the 4-piece kit that includes the small one that faces downward! You will have to remove the stud below the hole to install it. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34012 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Although this exploded diagram sorta makes it seem like the springs and balls go in from the outside after the shafts are in place, they do not.
The holes are to insert the springs and balls BEFORE the shift rods are inserted. The plug just seals the hole. Look at the diagram-- the detents on the shafts are on the backside in this view, so the springs/balls are on the OTHER side of the rods, and can't fall out.
Last edited by KTPhil on Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ladon67 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2018 Posts: 71 Location: North Kingstown, RI
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Make sure you get the 4-piece kit that includes the small one that faces downward! You will have to remove the stud below the hole to install it. |
SJ- I think that small hole at the bottom is gonna get a squirt of sealant in it!! |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Transmission holes. |
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Don't do it! That's what PO did to mine and it leaked. It will leak eventually.
Easy to double-nut the stud out.
I found a 4-pc kit at Bugcity. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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carlk3 Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2009 Posts: 201 Location: Longmont, CO
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: Transaxle Detent Access Hole Plugs; was Re: Transmission holes. |
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Thanks to the TheSamba Forums for solving my problem once again!
After I changed the gear oil in my '64 Ghia's transaxle back in July, I started seeing a leak. At first, I thought that it was probably just spillover from refilling the trans. Then, I thought it was overfilled, and let some oil out. Then I thought the boots needed tightening, which was a pain, because the screws on the clamps were up at the top. Next, I crawled all over the trans from under the car and snugged up all of the nuts. The leak just kept getting worse. I used engine degreaser and the hose a couple of times to try to get things clean enough that I could spot the leak. It seemed to be up by the nose, but I could not find it. To the forums!
Even after reading about the detent plugs and seeing the pictures, I had a hard time spotting them. Being in a place that's hard to see, and covered in paint and crud, they just blended right in. Eventually I found all of them, and I was sure that they were the source of my leak. I ordered some plugs from Weddle.
I feared that this was going to be an impossible job with the trans still in the car, but I started probing the top plug, which seemed to be in the best condition, and found it like cheese. The plugs were so mushy that I was able to clean them out with nothing more than a rag, a piece of coat hanger, and a can of brake cleaner:
Now I had to get the new plugs in, which was a bit tricky, since there was no good way to get a hammer in place to tap them in. Using a brass drift and a giant screwdriver and a hammer, I was able to get them in pretty far. Maybe I tried too hard, since when I took a photo, I could see that I had banged up the plugs a bit:
It's not a pretty job, but I think they will hold.
I didn't change the bottom plug, since it seemed like it was already aluminum:
However, looking again at some of the photos in this thread, I'm now thinking that I was mistaken, and that one needs to be replaced, too. Bummer; I've already refilled the transaxle. |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Transaxle Detent Access Hole Plugs; was Re: Transmission holes. |
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carlk3 wrote: |
Thanks to the TheSamba Forums for solving my problem once again!
After I changed the gear oil in my '64 Ghia's transaxle back in July, I started seeing a leak. At first, I thought that it was probably just spillover from refilling the trans. Then, I thought it was overfilled, and let some oil out. Then I thought the boots needed tightening, which was a pain, because the screws on the clamps were up at the top. Next, I crawled all over the trans from under the car and snugged up all of the nuts. The leak just kept getting worse. I used engine degreaser and the hose a couple of times to try to get things clean enough that I could spot the leak. It seemed to be up by the nose, but I could not find it. To the forums!
Even after reading about the detent plugs and seeing the pictures, I had a hard time spotting them. Being in a place that's hard to see, and covered in paint and crud, they just blended right in. Eventually I found all of them, and I was sure that they were the source of my leak. I ordered some plugs from Weddle.
I feared that this was going to be an impossible job with the trans still in the car, but I started probing the top plug, which seemed to be in the best condition, and found it like cheese. The plugs were so mushy that I was able to clean them out with nothing more than a rag, a piece of coat hanger, and a can of brake cleaner:
Now I had to get the new plugs in, which was a bit tricky, since there was no good way to get a hammer in place to tap them in. Using a brass drift and a giant screwdriver and a hammer, I was able to get them in pretty far. Maybe I tried too hard, since when I took a photo, I could see that I had banged up the plugs a bit:
It's not a pretty job, but I think they will hold.
I didn't change the bottom plug, since it seemed like it was already aluminum:
However, looking again at some of the photos in this thread, I'm now thinking that I was mistaken, and that one needs to be replaced, too. Bummer; I've already refilled the transaxle. |
I just addressed that bottom one a few days ago in my '61 transaxle. I have the Weddle plugs ready to order (113-311-599) but in the meantime I JB welded that hole, being careful not to push the solution too far up in the hole. Seems to be holding fine and no more leaks. On mine the plugs on the side of the tranny, or someone's homebrew replacement for them, are still in place, or at least have something in them. |
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