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A new motor for my VW SP2
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

I'm trying to define the components needed to mount a new engine for my 1974 VW SP2.
This should be a 3-day-a-week driver. Not much stop-and-go traffic.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The SP2 uses a "pancake" Type 3 engine. This means I should plan for some oil cooler radiator.

I already have some requirements defined, so I hope that with the help of the forum I can finish my list.

From CB Performance:
CNC Super Pro Cylinder Heads (45 x 37.5) 94 bore with titanium retainers and VW650 dual valve springs
94mm Race Ready MAHLE Cylinders & Wiseco Pistons
1290 Super Race Rods - VW rod journal - 5.500"
Straight Cut Cam Gears
7073 Micro Cam-Sync for sequential spark

From Aircooled.Net:
Engle FK10 Camshaft

From DPR Machine:
82mm VW Journal Counterweight crankshaft

From Jenvey Dynamics:
Twin 40-50mm IDF Throttle Body pair

From TheDubShop:
Crank Trigger Package - Type 3 VW
Megasquirt (MS2 or MS3)

9.5:1 compression (using ethanol)

What do you think?

My project:
https://www.instagram.com/vwsp2r/
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=718701


Last edited by VWSP2R on Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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modok
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Only thing that worries me is....how fast can you spin a type-3 fan before it explodes?
We don't really know for sure, but, there must be a limit.
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madmike
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Turbo it ,fan won't explode at 5000 rpm Wink
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76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Only thing that worries me is....how fast can you spin a type-3 fan before it explodes?
We don't really know for sure, but, there must be a limit.


That would be interesting to see! 😁
Gonna put a new fan on my watch list.
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

madmike wrote:
Turbo it ,fan won't explode at 5000 rpm Wink


Forgot to mention that I don't want a turbo, just because of the looks.
The velocity stacks must be there.
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Slow 1200
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

can you run velocity stacks under the engine lid? Confused
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Slow 1200 wrote:
can you run velocity stacks under the engine lid? Confused


I plan to make holes in the engine lid so the velocity stacks could "breathe" the air from inside the car.
Since I intend to use ethanol, I will not have problems with the smell of gasoline.
Is it a crazy idea? 🙄
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madmike
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Not crazy , just don't fart when it backfires threw the carb's Laughing Laughing Laughing
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Only thing that worries me is....how fast can you spin a type-3 fan before it explodes?
We don't really know for sure, but, there must be a limit.


I took a well-balanced one to 7000 just once or twice Embarassed (88 x 78 mm), but not regularly; the steel fan was welded. Everything was balanced together. And no signs of anything wrong on disassembly.

The stock oil cooler might be enough, but in any case add your extra cooler with the full-flow system. Which type of engine support does it use? The bar can be annoying with full-flow, but some are doing it out the side of the case..

The type 3 engines generally seemed to run cooler (but hotter engine compartment), with less difference between the cylinders (than a Beetle). Where does the SP-2 get its cooling air? Does it have the type 3's bellows?
Thermostat?

At 3 days a week, I'd think about thick-wall 92's. And I'd say don't use late-model air deflectors under the cylinders if you have them, be safe, use the normal ones (but I would be tempted to try myself). Confused

That is going to be one fast SP-2 Shocked ! Best of luck.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Very cool car. Looks like the intake / cooling air comes from those vents behind the windows?

I understand the vertical challenges of the type-3 engine room. I hate to see people cut up the lid. It's going to let a lot of noise into the cabin. A lot. Fumes and heat too.

Max
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Quote:
Where does the SP-2 get its cooling air?

The engine cooling air comes from the rear, where the fan is installed, on the same axis as the crankshaft.
The fresh air for the carburetors comes from the "gills", just behind the small windows.

Quote:
It's going to let a lot of noise into the cabin. A lot. Fumes and heat too.

It sounds like I should make a good noise damping system somehow. Either way, the right kind of noise can be fun.
Smoke and heat can be resolved with some positive air pressure coming from the cabin.

Quote:
At 3 days a week, I'd think about thick-wall 92's.

My first target was 90.5, but it looks like only the 94's are made as the best of all.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

VWSP2R wrote:
It sounds like I should make a good noise damping system somehow. Either way, the right kind of noise can be fun.
Smoke and heat can be resolved with some positive air pressure coming from the cabin.

I'm just looking at the picture of the inside rear of your car. I don't see how your going to do it without messing up that beautiful clean look. And you may be surprised how much intake noise that will be. Good luck.

Max
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Max Welton wrote:

I'm just looking at the picture of the inside rear of your car. I don't see how your going to do it without messing up that beautiful clean look. And you may be surprised how much intake noise that will be. Good luck.

Max


Well, nothing has been done yet, just ideas that have already changed a lot.
Certainly the difference between a work of art and a bizarre car is not very big.
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

I've done some research and I'm feeling the configuration of 2109cc (94x76mm) quite interesting, but not very common.
Perhaps the smaller stroke doesn't bring advantages over the 82mm, not even the final cost?
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

I think this car is asking for a blower.

How much room do you have around the engine? I've seen a few type-3s fitted up with turbos ... everything under the lid.

I especially like this one:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_keywords=turbo&search_author=tripicana

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Max
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Ebel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

The 2109 was used by vw in a production engine actually. The waterboxer engine is a 2109. So. Vw thought it was ok to power the last Vanagons made. But it might be just as cost effective to use an 82 mm. Crank. I personally don’t see any reason not to just go to the 82mm. I think that’s why they aren’t that common. The pistons are based off 82 mm stroke. The cranks cost the same or very close unless your using a Vanagon crankshaft.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Your initial engine combo is a classy setup. I wouldnt go backwards to a smaller stroke. I would however use the cb2292 instead of the fk10 so you can get cb lighweight lifters that are compatible.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Type-3 Turbo FTW Wink

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=539335#539335

Max
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VWSP2R
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Max Welton wrote:
I think this car is asking for a blower.

How much room do you have around the engine? I've seen a few type-3s fitted up with turbos ... everything under the lid.

Max


A turbo SP2 should be great, but not for now.
I want a clean look engine.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A new motor for my VW SP2 Reply with quote

Well, we're all about helping you spend money. Wink

I'm really digging your car.

Max
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