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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
What part of the system handles the axial loading when you turn corners? |
It is all handled by the ball bearing. |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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riceye Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 1661 Location: Caledonia, WI
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Are there any threads on setting the preload? Sounds important... |
I wonder if TK still visits.
_________________ '87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee
"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig |
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Wheels on the ground, wheels in the air, wheels off or on, it makes little, if any, difference in reference to the torquing of the rear axle nut. There is no "preload" on the rear wheel bearings as they are roller bearings with a spacer sleeve in between the two bearings.
_________________
quoted from Christopher Schimke, june 30, 2008 post
But I'm guessing Preload is a Dead horse Topic with the comments in this thread.... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Slimvest Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2014 Posts: 431 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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One of the few places I haven't touched on my van. Listening to this thread... _________________ '87 GL w/ Reimo top |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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jlrftype7 wrote: |
Wheels on the ground, wheels in the air, wheels off or on, it makes little, if any, difference in reference to the torquing of the rear axle nut. There is no "preload" on the rear wheel bearings as they are roller bearings with a spacer sleeve in between the two bearings.
_________________
quoted from Christopher Schimke, june 30, 2008 post
But I'm guessing Preload is a Dead horse Topic with the comments in this thread.... |
HERESY!
Actually not. Just an old reference to an old troll. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Needle grease here on my 130k probably original bearings. Honestly it was hard for me not to take it apart, clean, and regrease - especially when I had the whole bearing housing/assembly in hand.
I will say it was super fun to watch the old grease be pushed out. Redline CV-2 used. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9616 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Needle grease here
....
I will say it was super fun to watch the old grease be pushed out. Redline CV-2 used. |
Did you do the 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, 9:00 method?
It instills confidence how it comes out "all black",
then not much mixing,,,
then it's "all clean" coming out.
Gives the impression that there can't be much old grease still in there.
If they can last 250k with old grease they have to run way long if you renew the grease every 100k (like 400,500?). But who's gonna drive a 30yo van another 100k anyway? Not many. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Yup I did actually. I honestly wasted a lot of new grease just to make sure I was gucci _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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So from all of these comments am I to assume that the verdict is IN?
That the best way to go, once it is determined that the OE bearing are still good, is to needle the old grease OUT and be done with it? >>> can I assume that most folks figure that removing the bearings entirely runs too much risk of damaging them, and is furthermore a very time consuming, tricky, and messy job?
But nobody yet has commented on the "middle-way" option of REMOVING THE BEARING HOUSING, SOAKING THE WHOLE THING IN PARTS CLEANER, REPACKING NEW GREASE, RE-INSTALL... ??? Wouldn't this method be superior to the needle because most of the old grease could be removed which would mostly eliminate the grease incompatibility issue. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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metropoj Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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epowell wrote: |
.... nobody yet has commented on the "middle-way" option of REMOVING THE BEARING HOUSING, SOAKING THE WHOLE THING IN PARTS CLEANER, REPACKING NEW GREASE, RE-INSTALL... ??? Wouldn't this method be superior to the needle because most of the old grease could be removed which would mostly eliminate the grease incompatibility issue.[/b] |
Hmm, to me , introducing a chemical into a bearing housing that you can never guarantee to get it all drained out of seems like a bad idea for the next batch of grease you inject. The only way I'd clean a bearing that way would be to yank it, and then make sure to NOT spin it dry afterwards. When i get to this job I will do the needle grease injection ...
I van was over 300,000 miles on it, PO replaced the rear trailing arms but I don't think he ever redid the rear bearings or re-greasing, it's on my big list of things to do. _________________ John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy. |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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metropoj wrote: |
I van was over 300,000 miles on it, PO replaced the rear trailing arms but I don't think he ever redid the rear bearings or re-greasing, it's on my big list of things to do. |
...that is also my situation exactly (nice to have the new trailing arms tho ) _________________ www.edwardpowell.com
Last edited by epowell on Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Ed - please don't yell. You will unload the bearings with all that noise.
Ok, bold isn't yelling, technically..its loud talking.
#heart _________________ .ssS! |
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vanagonjon Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006 Posts: 230
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.
John |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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vanagonjon wrote: |
As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.
John |
^^^^^ This. As noted, Metal particles left inside the small amounts of 'old' grease still remaining in the bearing aren't likely to be pushed out with fresh grease. I was reminded of this when I recently did my CV boots and cleaned and repacked the Cv Joints. The amount of 'shiny' particles that were coming out of the CVs and into Rags or my used Oil Catch Pan were numerous, and yet not visible in the old grease before I started. I should have taken a picture for my records and memory, but didn't have time for it.
If I hadn't taken the CV joints to bare metal, SO MUCH of that 'grit' would still be in the Joint, not helping it.
Are the new Rear Wheel Bearings really failing early and not the same quality as the Original one? _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4351 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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Any hints on how to clean the inner seal area with the housing still attached? I see mentioned that if you pull the stub axle, you crud up that seal. I'd really LIKE to pull the whole axle and get the outer CV off on the bench. The area looks mighty tight tho, for a cleaning. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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vanagonjon wrote: |
As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.
John |
Thanks John.
Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4351 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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epowell wrote: |
Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings. |
Best advise Iv'e heard is to get a spare bearing housing, and either freshen or replace the bearings and seals in that, and carry it along with you. I am guessing that they are the same left to right, but have not tried swapping them.
That being said, it could be a bugger getting the old one off when it does fail. Also, how much crap can a person carry in the rig before all the space is used for spare parts! I guess organization is the key. Take inspiration from the djkeev post on what he kept under his bench _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4798 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
epowell wrote: |
Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings. |
Best advise Iv'e heard is to get a spare bearing housing, and either freshen or replace the bearings and seals in that, and carry it along with you. I am guessing that they are the same left to right, but have not tried swapping them.
That being said, it could be a bugger getting the old one off when it does fail. Also, how much crap can a person carry in the rig before all the space is used for spare parts! I guess organization is the key. Take inspiration from the djkeev post on what he kept under his bench |
the other thing one can do is keep spares at home, all boxed up and ready to FedEx out if you have a friend/someone at home that could overnite them to you when you're on the road. vintage motorcyclers do this a fair amount when traveling. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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