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Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:
What part of the system handles the axial loading when you turn corners?


It is all handled by the ball bearing.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Are there any threads on setting the preload? Sounds important...


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Are there any threads on setting the preload? Sounds important...


I wonder if TK still visits.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Are there any threads on setting the preload? Sounds important...

AWESOME!!!
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Wheels on the ground, wheels in the air, wheels off or on, it makes little, if any, difference in reference to the torquing of the rear axle nut. There is no "preload" on the rear wheel bearings as they are roller bearings with a spacer sleeve in between the two bearings.
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But I'm guessing Preload is a Dead horse Topic with the comments in this thread.... Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

One of the few places I haven't touched on my van. Listening to this thread...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

jlrftype7 wrote:
Wheels on the ground, wheels in the air, wheels off or on, it makes little, if any, difference in reference to the torquing of the rear axle nut. There is no "preload" on the rear wheel bearings as they are roller bearings with a spacer sleeve in between the two bearings.
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quoted from Christopher Schimke, june 30, 2008 post

But I'm guessing Preload is a Dead horse Topic with the comments in this thread.... Wink


HERESY!


Actually not. Just an old reference to an old troll.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Needle grease here on my 130k probably original bearings. Honestly it was hard for me not to take it apart, clean, and regrease - especially when I had the whole bearing housing/assembly in hand.

I will say it was super fun to watch the old grease be pushed out. Redline CV-2 used.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
Needle grease here
....
I will say it was super fun to watch the old grease be pushed out. Redline CV-2 used.


Did you do the 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, 9:00 method?
It instills confidence how it comes out "all black",
then not much mixing,,,
then it's "all clean" coming out.

Gives the impression that there can't be much old grease still in there.

If they can last 250k with old grease they have to run way long if you renew the grease every 100k (like 400,500?). But who's gonna drive a 30yo van another 100k anyway? Not many.
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Yup I did actually. I honestly wasted a lot of new grease just to make sure I was gucci
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epowell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

So from all of these comments am I to assume that the verdict is IN?
That the best way to go, once it is determined that the OE bearing are still good, is to needle the old grease OUT and be done with it? >>> can I assume that most folks figure that removing the bearings entirely runs too much risk of damaging them, and is furthermore a very time consuming, tricky, and messy job?

But nobody yet has commented on the "middle-way" option of REMOVING THE BEARING HOUSING, SOAKING THE WHOLE THING IN PARTS CLEANER, REPACKING NEW GREASE, RE-INSTALL... ??? Wouldn't this method be superior to the needle because most of the old grease could be removed which would mostly eliminate the grease incompatibility issue.
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metropoj
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
.... nobody yet has commented on the "middle-way" option of REMOVING THE BEARING HOUSING, SOAKING THE WHOLE THING IN PARTS CLEANER, REPACKING NEW GREASE, RE-INSTALL... ??? Wouldn't this method be superior to the needle because most of the old grease could be removed which would mostly eliminate the grease incompatibility issue.[/b]



Hmm, to me , introducing a chemical into a bearing housing that you can never guarantee to get it all drained out of seems like a bad idea for the next batch of grease you inject. The only way I'd clean a bearing that way would be to yank it, and then make sure to NOT spin it dry afterwards. When i get to this job I will do the needle grease injection ...

I van was over 300,000 miles on it, PO replaced the rear trailing arms but I don't think he ever redid the rear bearings or re-greasing, it's on my big list of things to do.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

metropoj wrote:


I van was over 300,000 miles on it, PO replaced the rear trailing arms but I don't think he ever redid the rear bearings or re-greasing, it's on my big list of things to do.


...that is also my situation exactly Smile (nice to have the new trailing arms tho Smile )
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Last edited by epowell on Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Ed - please don't yell. You will unload the bearings with all that noise.

Ok, bold isn't yelling, technically..its loud talking.

#heart
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.

John
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

vanagonjon wrote:
As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.

John
^^^^^ This. As noted, Metal particles left inside the small amounts of 'old' grease still remaining in the bearing aren't likely to be pushed out with fresh grease. I was reminded of this when I recently did my CV boots and cleaned and repacked the Cv Joints. The amount of 'shiny' particles that were coming out of the CVs and into Rags or my used Oil Catch Pan were numerous, and yet not visible in the old grease before I started. I should have taken a picture for my records and memory, but didn't have time for it.

If I hadn't taken the CV joints to bare metal, SO MUCH of that 'grit' would still be in the Joint, not helping it.
Are the new Rear Wheel Bearings really failing early and not the same quality as the Original one?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Any hints on how to clean the inner seal area with the housing still attached? I see mentioned that if you pull the stub axle, you crud up that seal. I'd really LIKE to pull the whole axle and get the outer CV off on the bench. The area looks mighty tight tho, for a cleaning.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

vanagonjon wrote:
As a long time VW van owner, with industrial bearing experience, you are probably best to leave it alone unless there is a problem. Then take the whole assembly apart, clean it absolutely spotless, inspect for the failure, replace the failed bearing. Then reassemble with new grease and seals. You need to get rid of any contaminants in the assembly. I would NEVER try to pull off a seal and re-grease in place, there are too many chances to introduce contamination into the housing. These VW rear bearing assemblies can run for over 50 years reliably. The bearings will wear but if they live in a clean environment with quality grease it may outlive the rest of the van. It is a cliche in old movies that we were always bombing German ball bearing factories, don't bomb your German bearings by getting dirt in to the housing.

John


Thanks John.
Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:

Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings.


Best advise Iv'e heard is to get a spare bearing housing, and either freshen or replace the bearings and seals in that, and carry it along with you. I am guessing that they are the same left to right, but have not tried swapping them.

That being said, it could be a bugger getting the old one off when it does fail. Also, how much crap can a person carry in the rig before all the space is used for spare parts! I guess organization is the key. Take inspiration from the djkeev post on what he kept under his bench Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

bobbyblack wrote:
epowell wrote:

Wow this comment throws a whole new twist on things! So some say just don't to anything - keep driving until they die, then replace bearings.


Best advise Iv'e heard is to get a spare bearing housing, and either freshen or replace the bearings and seals in that, and carry it along with you. I am guessing that they are the same left to right, but have not tried swapping them.

That being said, it could be a bugger getting the old one off when it does fail. Also, how much crap can a person carry in the rig before all the space is used for spare parts! I guess organization is the key. Take inspiration from the djkeev post on what he kept under his bench Wink


the other thing one can do is keep spares at home, all boxed up and ready to FedEx out if you have a friend/someone at home that could overnite them to you when you're on the road. vintage motorcyclers do this a fair amount when traveling.
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