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Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings?
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Ed, looks like you are on the right track.


Thanks Dave... I'm not going to be in a hurry -- will wait for hopefully some more opinions and feedback B4 beginning cuz it seems that nobody has actually done this B4. Nice to be a pioneer but I also don't want to screw up my still working OEM rear bearings in the process...

At the moment I'm kinda leaning towards just detaching the CVs to stub --- then pressing stub with clamps... maybe more work than necessary, but I think important to really see what I'm doing - - - any thoughts?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

You'll want to drop the inner CV joints to get them out of the way if you need to work the stub axle inwards the 13 mm. Disconnecting them at the trailing arm won't get them out of the way.

Removing the bearing housing shouldn't be that difficult. Its 4 bolts, brake fluid line and parking brake cable. You can then carry it to your work area.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
You'll want to drop the inner CV joints to get them out of the way if you need to work the stub axle inwards the 13 mm. Disconnecting them at the trailing arm won't get them out of the way.

Removing the bearing housing shouldn't be that difficult. Its 4 bolts, brake fluid line and parking brake cable. You can then carry it to your work area.


Removing the entire bearing housing???

I'll have to go look at that....
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Look familiar? You posted about 6 pictures of you doing the rear bearing housings at some point. I came across them looking for a photo to share for you. Mark
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

No I've never done any work at all on rear bearing housings - but sometimes I post pics taken from Google that I found relavent.

Anyway, here is a pic I just took.
So you are saying to remove these 4 large bolts and also the CV bolts at the stub - then remove the entire housing??

Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to remove the entire CV?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Should be that simple. Sorry didnít mean to take your pictures out of context. I would leave the backing plate, brake shoes etc in place if they arenít in the way.

Edit: easier is relative. Whatís easier for one, may not be for another. You may find the mounting bolts frozen in place. I got the impression you are trying to keep it simple. Iíve not used the needle method for bearings or cvs. Some have had great success though. I have access to torches, a bench vice, and 20 ton press. Iím also in feels like 103f weather at the moment.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

I have never found a way to take off the rear bearing housing without taking off the entire brake and backing plate assembly. The bearing housing is machined so that it is difficult to remove with a open/box wrench, the bolts are also supposed to be torqued to 101 ft lbs.
You can take off the cv axle and have access to the rear but the bearing housing is in the dark crevasse known as the trailing arm.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Seems the inner bearing would be side loaded on install too.



No, on install you press the inner race of the ball bearing onto the axle, but there is no way to support the inner race from behind when pressing the stub out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Quote:
1) remove outer sealing spacer ring
2) tap the stub axle inward 13mm
3) insert the needle to the centroid of the hub so it displaces the old grease equally inboard and outboard. Insert the needle in four locations around the axle (North, east, south, west). Pump new grease until all all old grease is gone and new grease is coming out clean.
4) after greasing, push the stub axle back out fully
5) replace outer sealing spacer ring


Some of these steps are verified, but the "complete process" ^^ steps above^^
for exchanging the grease of the rear wheel bearing hub (with a needle greaser) is still 'theory".
It may be different between OEM drum-brake vans and rear-disc vans.

The benefit would be to change the grease at 5,000 miles(?) and then again at 30,000 miles. Perhaps again at 60K or doing a complete R&R if you feel like it.
But removing the bedding-in grease early has to be good.

syncrodoka wrote:
The above image theory looks flawed.


Syncrodoka please explain.
We don't want to propose a flawed process.
Flawed in a TK sense might be OK.

T3messie wrote:
So, theoretically, there is no way to get the stub axle out of the seal without forcing side load to the ball bearing.

Of course, mostly everything is worn out a little and it is no problem when the stub comes out with a little tapping, but I would not hammer too much.


On my old van 175,000 mi, a light tap with a hammer and block of wood on the threaded end and the stub axle slid out of the inner ball bearing.
It was "easy", NO possibility of damage.
(on my van)

I suppose on some vans it can be more difficult.
I don't know how to tell a 'new' mechanic how much is too much.
This is a difficult subject as there are experienced mechanics who advise hitting the EMPI slug wrench with a sledge hammer (but only in the VW world).
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Last edited by Sodo on Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

T3messie wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Seems the inner bearing would be side loaded on install too.



No, on install you press the inner race of the ball bearing onto the axle, but there is no way to support the inner race from behind when pressing the stub out.



Ok I dragged out my manual page 42.5. Its not really clear what tool 30-100 actually does. I suppose it could be open enough the support the inner race pressing the house and bearing together with the stub axle. I'd have to have the tool in my hand as well as a bearing to "see it".

That said, there is no mention of of potential damage to the inner race pressing the stub axle out in the manual. They show the housing supported on a conventional press plate.

If its like a fwd one piece bearing I get that the inner race can get stuck and the bearing rendered useless. If I had the time, I'd go through this fire drill to see for myself.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Try the process you are proposing. You will quickly find the issue.
TK sold an adaptation of the housing and i remember a person talking about how they pressed out a seal.
Good times
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Try the process you are proposing. You will quickly find the issue.


Iíd like to try it about 15,000 miles in the future.
But for now it's a puzzle for the current poster epowell. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

You mean if I do this I will be a PIONEER?? Smile Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Yup, it is just a theory until you show it is possible.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

Please do not wear a red shirt when you do this...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

So what I am planning to do is to only disconnect the CV at the tranny and let that end dangle down - while keeping the CV still connected at the wheel. The reason is that it is more difficult to remove and install the CV at the wheel, and quite easy to do it at the tranny - and once the CV is free from the tranny the STUB will be free to move backwards.

Then I can pump grease in from the outside --- I won't be able to see old grease coming out into the trailing arm but I guess I should be able to stick a finger in there and wipe out some old grease before tapping the STUB back in. I am assuming that getting the STUB back in fully will require some hammer tapping with a piece of wood on the back of the CV.

- - -

I just now tested the needle, and pumped in 10 syringes full, and still no sign of any old grease coming out --- seems it can take a long time before grease will come out, and I wonder if that little syringe will have the power to actually displace and pump out any grease. Probably I should heat up the housing a bit with a heat gun if I encounter such problems.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

OK... so I removed on CV from the gearbox and let the drive shaft hang loose - with the other CV still connected to the wheel.

I began tapping (hammering) on the STUB with a rubber mallet, quite hard... and the STUB is not budging anywhere! It is really in there tight!

I am considering rigging up a couple of very large wood-working clamps to PRESS out the STUB.... ....but I can't help but wonder, even if I get the STUB pressed back 15mm, then how the heck am I going to get it pressed back in (in situ like this????) ?????

I will stop work now and wait for more feedback. . . .

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

You should be able to use the nut to pull it back in if you have a few threads left. If you are attempting to move the stub out, leave the nut on loose so you donít damage the threads.

If you can rig some means of pressing the stub back, that would be the good vs a sledge and a 2x4.

Watching.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

So I just watched your videos. That's a lot of play across the wheel bearing and in my experience any play at all means its trash. Imagine how much play you have in your wheel when it's bolted to that hub, 1/16" of play at the hub becomes 1/2" of play at the wheel. There's no coming back from this.

My recommendation would be to stop messing around with trying to regrease it and start thinking about replacing the bearings.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Rear wheel bearings: Remove and re-use original bearings? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
You should be able to use the nut to pull it back in if you have a few threads left. If you are attempting to move the stub out, leave the nut on loose so you donít damage the threads.


Actually that is a very good idea... That's a BIG nut with a lot of torque so it should definitly be possible to "pull" the stub back in using the nut!

Zoltan was advising just to remove the stub completely - but I hesitate to go this far. I wouldn't want to risk having a spaces drop away, or that I wouldn't get it all back together correctly - or possibly contaminate the innards...
...what would be the advantage of completely removing the stub?


MarkWard wrote:

If you can rig some means of pressing the stub back, that would be the good vs a sledge and a 2x4.



Aha... so hammering with a sledge is what it would take?? I only tried hammering a bit with a rubber mallet.
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