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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: Explanation of gas line connections |
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I ran a new steel line through the tunnel but I'm not sure of the connections to the motor and tank. My thought is to flare and install barbs on both ends with a filter just below the tank and use stainless braided hose to connect from filter to steel line then more stainless braided hose from steel line at the exit point left of the tranny to the pump. Any thoughts ? Is this the proper way to do it ?
Thanks for any advice. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24736 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Just get a good quality flex fuel line that fits the 6 mm metal pipes. If you want to, install fuel filter that will fit the flex fuel line either under the fuel tank or farther back over the transaxle. Filter is only needed for a fuel system that has not been completely cleaned out from front to back or at least run for many tens or thousands of miles and filter has not shown any crud in it.
Replace flex fuel line every two years.
Just because someone is making SS fuel line, does not mean it is only made of SS. Instead it is a rubber fuel proof flex fuel line with a SS braided covering over it. So when (not if) the rubber cracks inside the SS covering it is still just going to leak. The SS covering would only be a good addition to some machinery that needed the fuel line to be much more resistant to sharp cutting edges hitting it, like black berry vines might do.
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26312 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Where the metal lines exit the frame, you do want proper rubber supports on them.
Also, I think you should use decent rubber hose connecting the tank to the chassis fuel line and from there to the engine. The driveline and the body do flex in relation to each other, and having them hard-lined is not a good thing.
Now, I no longer care for German style rubber hose with cloth covering, having had too many of them fall apart over the years. Not much of a fan of stainless braided covered rubber hose, either. I now use ethanol rated rubber hose and I've not had any issues with it. Last time I bought fuel hose it was this:
https://www.belmetric.com/rhm5-flennor-multifuel-hose-5mm-p-3718.html?cPath=14_662 _________________ Andy T.
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Steel lines last a long time. Hoses (rubber or not) wear out faster. Steel braided hoses better handle vibrations/abrasions.
The stock arrangement was:
Fuel tank
Flexible hose from tank to center tunnel steel line (allows body flex/vibration)
Steel line running thru tunnel (supported internally by brackets)
Flexible hose from center tunnel to engine steel line (allows engine flex/vibration)
Steel line running around the left side of the fan shroud (supported by hangers/clips)
Flexible hose from steel line to fuel pump inlet (allows engine flex/vibration)
Flexible hose from fuel pump outlet to carb inlet (allows engine flex/vibration) _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26312 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Ash, I'm nearly always on the same page as you, but on this, I waver. Steel braided is OK, but you have to be able to trust the rubber inner layer. In the end it depends on who made the rubber innards. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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glutamodo wrote: |
Ash, I'm nearly always on the same page as you, but on this, I waver. Steel braided is OK, but you have to be able to trust the rubber inner layer. In the end it depends on who made the rubber innards. |
Nah, I think you and I are still on the same page...
I agree that the internal hose inside the steel braided exterior is the key component and the life of that hose is mostly dependent on that inner "rubber". The outer steel braiding only aids in preventing rubbing from wearing thru the (rubber) hose (been there, not pretty when an oil hose starts spraying all the oil onto the engine/ground). And it may offer a bit of heat insulation too. Oh, and steel braided hose looks cool too!
I think for me, if I'm spending the $$ for steel braided hose I'm buying from a good named brand and NOT just braided steel over (cheap) rubber. I see that some of the better steel braided fuel hoses offer PTFE for the internals instead of rubber. That would be the best thing below steel lines.
So let me clarify my previous:
Natural rubber hoses (stock) = Vulnerable to sun/age and breakdown from ethanol fuels. Susceptible to wear from rubbing/friction. Even the cloth wrapped hose only offers slightly better abrasion resistance.
Modern rubber (ethanol compatible/PTFE) = Still vulnerable to sun/age (but probably better protection than natural rubber). Susceptible to wear from rubbing/friction.
Steel braided (rubber hose) = Better protection from friction and sun but depending on the type of internal rubber, susceptible to breakdown from ethanol and age.
Steel braided (PTFE hose) = Better protection from friction and sun. PTFE internals compatible with ethanol. Age is still a concern.
Steel lines = Longest lasting. Impervious to sun, ethanol. Wear is usually not an issue if mounted properly. Inflexible and can crack with heavy vibration. If moisture is a concern, go with stainless steel, but stock Beetles used galvanized(?) steel fuel lines and most are still flowing fuel decades later.
So run steel in the long runs (its cheaper) along the chassis as it provides rigid support. Add good quality flexible hose at transition points (between two areas that are not part of the same chassis and which flex). This avoids stressing the steel lines. The higher the quality of the (internal) hose the less you have to worry about it. Change hoses on a schedule (every 2yr for natural rubber and less often for better grades).
BTW, steel braided hose can also BECOME an abrasive. Installed in a spot with vibration and allowed to rest on metal/paint it will (over time) wear that spot clean... resulting in rust. So steel braided hose is not always better than raw rubber/PTFE. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76911 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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I just replaced all my fuel hoes with Flennor Multi-Fuel Hose 6mm Braided which is E85 safe.
https://www.belmetric.com/multifuel-hoseethanol-ap...5q4a0ee7t0
Hose from tank to body (good place for a "metal" filter)
Hose from body to engine hardline. (good place for a "metal" filter)
Hose from engine hardline to pump
Hose from pump to carb
ABA "band" clamps on all hose.
I use a Hastings GF-1 filter.
Steel braid is just rubber hose with a metal cover. If it's not ethanol safe, it's no better than rubber hose without the cover. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26312 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Glenn wrote: |
Steel braid is just rubber hose with a metal cover. If it's not ethanol safe, it's no better than rubber hose without the cover. |
Which is exactly the point that myself and Ash were making above.
At this point, I do not care what the hose looks like, whether it's plain rubber, or has cloth or a shiny stainless steel outer shell, but that the rubber hose itself won't dry-and-crack due to climate and alcohol. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Explanation of gas line connections |
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Skip the flare fitting to barb end, instead simply put the rubber hose on the steel pipe with a hose clamp, no barb needed. the addition of the flare gives one more leak point. Keep it simple, this is an extremely low pressure system, no need for barbs. however if you want, you could form a small flare on the pipe to act as a single barb, but that is really overkill.
braiding can act like a hacksaw if it rubs on stuff, can cut a hole in the gas tank for instence.
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