Inner headlights not working, outer might be odd too '91

[shizam]

Hey again!
Trying to figure out what the deal is w/my headlights, the inner headlights don't come on no matter what (no power to connectors) and the outer lights seem really dim. Here are some photos w/the light arm/switch in the two different positions. This is on a '91 Syncro Camper

A: Does that look correct for the outer lights?
B: What are some obvious spots to check for the inner lights, I checked fuses and they're fine, I currently have the whole fuse box pulled out to look around as well.

Position 1

Position 2

[Mikesarge]

by “Position 1” and “2” do you mean the switch on the dash or are you toggling the brights with the stalk? The inner lights are your brights, so if you’re not turning those on that could be your problem

With regard to the brightness issue, are your lights on a separate relay or are they still stock? If they’re stock, search for “headlight relay kit” here and put that in, it’ll make a big difference.

[dobryan]

Did you check the ground points for the lights? Those are not stock so the OP may have done something.

Are there relays?

And did you check for any burned out bulbs?
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[shizam]

By position 1 & 2 I mean I'm toggling the brights with the stalk, I don't see a switch on the dash (but I'm new to this so may be missing it).

I just installed a relay kit for the lights which is why the fusebox is out and the lights behaved the same before installing the relay though they may be slightly brighter than they used to (next step is to install actually brighter lights).

I checked the voltage at the connectors for the inner lights and don’t see any voltage regardless of which position I toggle the stalk to.

[dobryan]

You have a wiring or ground problem if you have no voltage to the inner lights. Bulbs will not solve it. Start from scratch and check all previous wiring and your relays too. Something there is amiss.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Steve M.]

As you go draw out an electrical diagram (schematic), of how you find this has been wired.
This will give you an update for your records and also something you can show us so that the problems can be identified.
_________________
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[thatvwbusguy]

Have the headlights ever worked correctly since you have owned the van?

Did you wire the South African Grill headlights, or did someone else?

Are you running my relays, or someone else's?

Without seeing the wiring to the lights, it's basically just guess work.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[DuncanS]

I'm not thinking ground as both high and lows share a common ground. It would seem that if the outer dual filament bulbs work at all, then there must be a ground, even if it's in poor condition.

[shizam]

Mystery solved, it was anti-climactic:

On the back of the fuse panel the "P" post I plugged the high-beam relay into had no power to it. I moved the high-beam relay to a different "P" post and voila, the lights work.

On the one hand I wish I had a better story to tell but on the other I'm glad it was an easy fix

Postscript:
@thatvwbusguy: I didn't install the lights or grille but I did install the relay myself, on the plus side I understand the fusebox _way_ better now

@DuncanS: that is exactly what I did, I checked for power on the back of the low-beam relay at the yellow cable and got 12v; toggled the switch; checked for power on the back of the high-beam relay at the white cable and got 0v. So I poked the multimeter into the the red cable for both (connected to the "P" tab) and found 12v for the low-beam relay and 0v for the high-beam.

[crazyvwvanman]

Perhaps not quite solved. The way the lights were behaving it seems something else is wrong, not just power for the white wire relay plugged into a dead P spade. Unless some sort of DRL setup is involved.

Mark

[DuncanS]

I agree. Why were the low beams so dim?

[shizam]

I think "Position 1" was the high-beams but they were getting no power so all you saw were the "parking lights", "Position 2" was the low-beams and they're just not that bright. Here are the fixed lights now:

"Position 1" high-beam:

"Position 2" low-beam:

Now that I have the relays in I'm going to install some 80/100 lights so my low-beam will be brighter
_________________
`91 Syncro Camper

[DuncanS]

They don't look bright enough to me. Could they somehow be wired in series?

[fxr]

[DuncanS]

Sorry not to reply earlier, but phone camera needed R &R.

Still worried about this issue. Here are pics of my headlights-not Hellas, just Sylvania sealed beams from FLAPS.

First photo is high beam wired in series which are my DRL's.
Second is low beam only.
Third is high beams. Note how much brighter mine are. Yes, they are not 28 year old sandblasted OG lenses and they are relayed. but..... And camera angle is almost identical as the OP.
All of these except my DRL's seem brighter than shizam's. Also notice the color temperature of his lights. Much lower and almost the same as my series wired. I'm convinced something is amiss here.

Duncan