Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Clutch master cylinder replacement
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:33 am    Post subject: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Hi Folks...

In my quest to solve my rough shifting issue, I finally had the brilliant inspiration to investigate the origin of the tiny puddle of brake fluid I have been observing under my feet near the pedals for about a year now!

Low and behold I discovered a kind of cylinder (what I subsequently learned is my Clutch Master Cylinder > I previously didn't even know such a thing existed - I have always just assumed that the BMC doubled as a CMC! ooops!)

So this thing is slowly leaking.... I guess there is no question that it needs replacing. But I have a few questions:
- The PO said that he recently replaced the slave cyl., but it doesn't look so new and the bleeder was stripped > so I am thinking to play it safe and just replace that also.... good idea? ...or waste of time and money?
- I'm not quite sure how to block off the lines to prevent fluid from entering the system... this article https://campwestfalia.com/vanagon-clutch-master-cylinder-replacement/ suggests using clamps on the rubber lines, but I have heard that this technique is a big NO NO. ...thoughts?

Any other considerations I should look into?

Thanks
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

OK, I just re-read some old emails from the PO who said he replaced the clutch fluid LINE, not the slave... so I will go now and just order both cylinders: master and slave.
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12958
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Replace both master and slave. Do not worry about closing any fluid lines, you'll be bleeding the air from them no matter how you do this.

Read up on the master cylinder replacement. It is fiddly.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Replace both master and slave. Do not worry about closing any fluid lines


Really? So just open it all up and replace, no need to block any lines? Isn't there a risk of getting air backed up into the reservoir?

Does it matter which I replace first, master or slave?

I have ordered both, and will arrive on Thursday! Smile
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12958
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
dobryan wrote:
Replace both master and slave. Do not worry about closing any fluid lines


Really? So just open it all up and replace, no need to block any lines? Isn't there a risk of getting air backed up into the reservoir?

Does it matter which I replace first, master or slave?

I have ordered both, and will arrive on Thursday! Smile


The reservoir will drain down to the level of the hose on the side that feeds the clutch master cylinder. But only that far. It will not drain low enough to get air into the brake lines. The brake master cylinder is fed from the bottom of the reservoir.

I'd replace the master cylinder first, then bleed the air out, then replace the slave and bleed. BTDT recently...
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:

I'd replace the master cylinder first, then bleed the air out, then replace the slave and bleed.


What is the advantage of bleeding each separately consecutively? Isn't that a waste of time and fluid? ...or?
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

...or maybe I misunderstood - does the clutch master cylinder also have a bleeder... can you bleed that locally or do you have to do it thru the slave cylinder?
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cawvin
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2013
Posts: 58
Location: Whatcom County
cawvin is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

epowell wrote:

Any other considerations I should look into?

Thanks

When I replaced my clutch master cylinder, I believe I wedged a little rubber stopper in the flex hose that comes down from the reservoir. The hard line that runs to the slave didn't leak too bad. I may have done the ol' cut-corner of a plastic bag with a zip tie around it trick.

It is tricky to access the thing, and the best way I found was actually to pull the driver's seat out of the vehicle, sit backwards in that spot, and lie down with my back on the driver's feet floor with my head resting on the brake pedal.
_________________
1986 tin top syncro w/ ahu tdi @ 50*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dampcamper
Samba Member


Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 766
Location: Rainy Portland, Oregon
Dampcamper is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

You'll be opening the hydraulic system up, don't worry about air in there because you'll need to bleed anyway. You can use either a turkey baster (rubber suction bulb) to draw fluid down below the magic line on the reservoir or you can get a length of 3/16" / 5mm clear vinyl tube (maybe 3 ft / 1m), slip one end over the nipple on the slave cylinder and have the other into a collecting jar and just open the nipple. It will slowly drain out just by gravity. This will reduce the amount of spillage you need to clean up. Wear nitrile rubber gloves when working with brake fluid and promptly wipe up spills, it is unkind to hands, paint, etc.
When you have accomplished the replacement take your half liter of brand-new brake fluid and fill the reservoir, open the slave cylinder nipple (with tube attached) and wait until you get bubble-free fluid dribbling down.
You'll still need to do the traditional bleeding process but this will prime your system. Keep the level in reservoir topped up while you do this.
And if your brake fluid has been in there for a while (5 years?) it might be wise to flush your brake system too. Buy another couple of half-liters of brake fluid for this. (Brake fluid absorbs moisture which can coalesce out inside your slave cylinders, these drops can cause corrosion inside the cylinders leading to leakage).
If the brake fluid in the reservoir is not nice and clear (kind of brown like weak coffee or darker) it may be telling you it is old.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 2863
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

i drained my brake fluid by using the drain bleeder on one of the brakes.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - 1983.5 Ivory Westfalia 1.9L 2wd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8844
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

That is what I would be inclined to do, but some at all 4 brake bleeders.

Mark

shagginwagon83 wrote:
i drained my brake fluid by using the drain bleeder on one of the brakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

My brake fluid is less than 2 years old and very clean after a total brake system rebuild summer 2017. Never had to put a drop into the reservoir since then.

So 2 years (I was hoping to leave it until 3 Embarassed ) ...but yes, might as well just bleed the entire system including brakes. I am a bit afraid to touch drain nipples... for fear that will crack off.

Regarding bleeding the clutch master cylinder, I see on this vid at 8:43 the guy just uses the 12mm hydraulic line nut to bleed... hmmm.... pretty messy, and how will you really know all the air is out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StawBx6oXNA
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Igeo
Samba Member


Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 645
Location: Oakland, CA
Igeo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

However you decide to drain the system will work. One important tip would be to aquire a flare nut wrench aka line wrench. Using a standard open end wrench may strip the nut flats.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12958
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

I did the master cylinder bleed at the 12mm banjo bolt first. Then bled at the slave to clear any small amount of air in the line out and flush new fluid in, then remove and replace the slave and bleed just the slave.

If you are afraid of the brake bleeders breaking then I'd leave them alone for this.

I did not remove the drivers seat or go contortionist. I could do it by working from the open drivers door and kneeling on the ground.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

this is interesting

Link

_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8844
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Well, if you really did a "total brake system rebuild summer 2017" why would there be any concern about the newish bleeder nipples now?

Mark



epowell wrote:
My brake fluid is less than 2 years old and very clean after a total brake system rebuild summer 2017.....I am a bit afraid to touch drain nipples... for fear that will crack off....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
epowell
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4350
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
epowell is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Is there only one bleeder... my mind is a bit foggy on this > I thought there were bleeder screws and also separate "drain" screws? ? ?

Yes all of the ordinary BLEEDER screws are fresh and working easily.
_________________
www.edwardpowell.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12958
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Is there only one bleeder... my mind is a bit foggy on this > I thought there were bleeder screws and also separate "drain" screws? ? ?

Yes all of the ordinary BLEEDER screws are fresh and working easily.


No drains only bleeders.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 14078
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Not sure why you would mess with the brake hydraulics at all replacing the clutch master and slave cylinders. Two completely different systems other than the shared reservoir which someone already stated won't completely empty so that air might get introduced into the brake system. Its a fail safe.

Bleeding the master, there is no bleeder valve. The idea is to work some fluid through the clutch master so that it is not dry. Opening and closing the outlet hose while you pump the pedal is all you need to do. The real work is when you get back to the clutch slave to bleed it.

With the reservoir topped off, open the clutch bleeder and wait for gravity to get the fluid back there and running out. You are now ready to bleed the clutch slave cylinder.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro.
In Car https://youtu.be/5hbfdUJR88Q
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9063
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch master cylinder replacement Reply with quote

Since it sounds like you'll be replacing the slave, you might consider this:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=717571&highlight=

May depend on parts availability where you are but if done at the time of slave replacement it would be a doddle to add a remote line.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB