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1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue
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mtsipe
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

I recently got my super beetle's 1600 dp engine rebuilt. I got the engine in and everything connected. *note* it is Fuel Injected.

I went to start it and the engine cranks but does not turn over. I sprayed starter fluid in the intake and the engine fired up briefly. I need to work out the fuel delivery.

Can anyone assist me as I am fairly new to the air cooled engine? Do I start with testing the fuel pump and then go from there? Do I completely ditch the fuel injection and go with carbs?

I am not quite ready to take it to a shop yet since it is soooo close to running under my own handywork.

It was a running car shortly before I purchased it. The previous owner let it sit too long and the engine seized up.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

Lets see your handy work. Post up some pictures. Maybe with that, the collective, WE, can direct you back to a running vehicle!
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

mtsipe wrote:
The previous owner let it sit too long.

That's a prompt to clean-out the krusty gas tank, filters & check the lines.
Then, purge air from the pump back & prime it w/ some fresh fuel.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

There are a lot of things to inspect.

Fuel pump, double relay, injectors. Are they all functioning?

First start with the fuel pump. Is it turning when you turn the key to start position (engine cranking)? It only start turning at this position and when the engine is running.

If that is good, pull an injector out, is it spraying fuel when you crank the engine? Check for power to the injectors.

That’s where I would start.

If your fuel pump is not running (going to say this is probably your issue) then check for power to the pump. The wires corrode and connections go bad.
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zoti
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

Also, if it was sitting and you have power to the pump, it could be that it is seized. I would connect two hoses to each side of the pump, sink them in fuel then connect the pump to 12v power. Switch the polarity until the pump un-siezes. It sometimes works.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

You seem to have tracked it to a fuel issue, so at least make sure the fuel pump is working. It can be hard to hear it on an L-Jet system since it only runs when the starter is operating.

The fuel pump is powered via the double relay when the key is turned to START. There is a trigger wire from terminal 50 on the solenoid to the double relay which provides that signal to close the relay and power the pump.

However you can trick the system into thinking the engine is running and powering the pump by turning the key ON and then manually moving the flap inside the air flow meter. When you move the flap off the rest position you should hear a click from the double relay and then you should hear the fuel pump run. If not, you know where to start troubleshooting.

Yes if it has been sitting for a long time, the old fuel may have turned to varnish and you may have to do some remedial work there.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

zoti wrote:
Also, if it was sitting and you have power to the pump, it could be that it is seized. I would connect two hoses to each side of the pump, sink them in fuel then connect the pump to 12v power. Switch the polarity until the pump un-siezes. It sometimes works.


ok, I connected two hoses to the pump and submerged them in gas. I powered the pump, switching polarities in the process. No flow. I waited another 20 minutes and gave it another go. I heard/saw a bubble. Flipped the polarity and there was flow.

I charged my battery overnight. I tried cranking it but still no turnover. The pump is operating when I turn the key.

Should I now check the injectors with a Noid Tester and/or pull an injector to see if there is flow?
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

If the pump was glued shut the injectors must be in a similar state, consider sending them out for a professional cleaning. If you don't have a Bosch authorized diesel injection shop in your town there are a couple of mail order shops that offer quick turn around.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

Pull an injector out and put it in a zip lock bag. Have someone crank the engine and see if it squirts. Test all of them. Go from there.

mtsipe wrote:
zoti wrote:
Also, if it was sitting and you have power to the pump, it could be that it is seized. I would connect two hoses to each side of the pump, sink them in fuel then connect the pump to 12v power. Switch the polarity until the pump un-siezes. It sometimes works.


ok, I connected two hoses to the pump and submerged them in gas. I powered the pump, switching polarities in the process. No flow. I waited another 20 minutes and gave it another go. I heard/saw a bubble. Flipped the polarity and there was flow.

I charged my battery overnight. I tried cranking it but still no turnover. The pump is operating when I turn the key.

Should I now check the injectors with a Noid Tester and/or pull an injector to see if there is flow?
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mtsipe
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

zoti wrote:
Pull an injector out and put it in a zip lock bag. Have someone crank the engine and see if it squirts. Test all of them. Go from there.


I wish I knew to test the injectors before assembling the engine and installing it. It would have made it much easier. Live and learn I guess.

If any are clogged, thoughts on using this cleaning method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rk0tKtiVic
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

mtsipe wrote:
zoti wrote:
Pull an injector out and put it in a zip lock bag. Have someone crank the engine and see if it squirts. Test all of them. Go from there.


I wish I knew to test the injectors before assembling the engine and installing it. It would have made it much easier. Live and learn I guess.

If any are clogged, thoughts on using this cleaning method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rk0tKtiVic


Shouldn’t be too hard to pull them out and test even with the engine on.

If they need cleaning I would send them out to someone that rebuilds injectors. They can also change the crimp and short piece of fuel hose attached to the injectors.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

So I pulled out two injectors (one new and one old) and tested them independently. There was no fuel spraying either with the key in the on position or cranking on both injectors. This leads me to believe that there is an electrical issue getting the signal to the injectors to open.

I will continue to test the cold start injector and the other two injectors the next chance I get.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

mtsipe wrote:
So I pulled out two injectors (one new and one old) and tested them independently. There was no fuel spraying either with the key in the on position or cranking on both injectors. This leads me to believe that there is an electrical issue getting the signal to the injectors to open.

I will continue to test the cold start injector and the other two injectors the next chance I get.


Now pull the fuel hose off one of the injectors and crank the engine to make sure fuel is flowing from the tank to the engine bay. Obviously have a container to catch it as it is pretty high pressure.

It can be the injectors but if there is no fuel and the pump is working it can be the fuel pressure regulator.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

zoti wrote:
mtsipe wrote:
So I pulled out two injectors (one new and one old) and tested them independently. There was no fuel spraying either with the key in the on position or cranking on both injectors. This leads me to believe that there is an electrical issue getting the signal to the injectors to open.

I will continue to test the cold start injector and the other two injectors the next chance I get.


Now pull the fuel hose off one of the injectors and crank the engine to make sure fuel is flowing from the tank to the engine bay. Obviously have a container to catch it as it is pretty high pressure.

It can be the injectors but if there is no fuel and the pump is working it can be the fuel pressure regulator.

Even if the FPR had failed somehow you would still get lots of fuel out of an injector hose (the FPR is downstream), a pressure gauge connected to the CSV line is a much better indicator of pump and FPR health and operation.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

mtsipe wrote:
zoti wrote:
Pull an injector out and put it in a zip lock bag. Have someone crank the engine and see if it squirts. Test all of them. Go from there.


I wish I knew to test the injectors before assembling the engine and installing it. It would have made it much easier. Live and learn I guess.

If any are clogged, thoughts on using this cleaning method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rk0tKtiVic


It's not hard to clean your fuel injectors if you have a 12 volt power source, an air compressor with a regulator, some carb cleaner and hose to fit over the injector. Back flow them first because there is a tiny filter in the "feed" end of the injector, then put the hose on the "feed" end and flush it in the direction the fuel flows. I set my air compressor at about 20 lbs. Put the hose on the injector, fill the hose with carb cleaner, then attach the air compressor hose with the correct pressure, apply the 12v power source and with short bursts watch the flow that comes out of the injector and keep doing it until you have a nice spray pattern.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

If you have fuel pressure but still nothing out of the injectors it's time to look at the ECU and electronics (more like electrics) of the car.

There's also a resistor pack (if I remember correctly it's in the engineerings bay on the passenger side wall) that the injectors connect to. Check the connection there.
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

Dwayne1m wrote:
It's not hard to clean your fuel injectors if you have a 12 volt power source,...........

A 9V battery would be better, they never get 12V in use and may be damaged internally by it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

Update:

Here is the video I made up. It was too big to post here so follow the link.

https://sipeadelic.wixsite.com/cabby-mk1/1976-vw-super-beetle-video
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zoti
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

First, get the correct fuel filter installed. I don't even know what that thing you have there is.

https://www.jbugs.com/product/133133511.html

You are not getting power to the injector which is obvious. When was the last time this car ran?

I read your first post again and I understand you installed everything back. My bet is you either missed something or a ground is not connected correctly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: 1976 VW Super Beetle fuel issue Reply with quote

This one is a FI diagram for a bus but I think it is almost identical.

No power to injectors is either disconnected at resistor pack or no signal from ECU.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7107458
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