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67 Sunroof Engine Build
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:54 am    Post subject: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

So this will be my first official engine build thread. My bug has the chassis complete. Iíve pulled it off the pan and everything has been gone through. Front/Rear airbags suspension is on and working properly too. Wolfsburg West has received my paychecks from the past 2 years with all the new rubber seals and whatnot. I was near the end of my build and had the stock motor started and running with some frd34ís. It was running really well. I decided to drain the oil, check the valves, and put some fresh oil back in. Thatís when the trouble started. I noticed the #3 valve wouldnít adjust properly and found out the seat was beginning to sink in. Crap.
Pulled the motor back out and while I had the heads on figured I would check the head bolt torque. 2 started pulling out of the case. Well shit....
So Iíve been researching rebuild choices and have decided on a 1776 build.
I will attempt to document my FIRST engine build and be asking LOTS of questions and many will be dumb so please bear with me!!
Iíve been a member here for many years and have learned a lot of valuable information from you guys/gals and I DO appreciate it.
My goal is to build a reliable and decent gas mileage engine. I also wanted a bit more pep over the stocker.
To start, I had 2 full AE case motors. I broke both down looking for any obvious issues from the previous owners and checked the cases for cracks. To me they looked ok.
I took both to Sean Dowdle (previous Peek Performance owner) for case inspection. He replied back a few days later telling me both cases were useable. One needed to be align bored .020, and the other .040.
The better case I wound up using...
He welded behind the #3, full flowed it, installed all new case savers, and I decided to have him cut the case for 90.5 cylinders for a 1776 build.
Here are a few photos:

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Getting my tools together:

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So Iíve picked up both cases. Apparently one of the cases was used in a bus? Someone on here told me because of the way the case was made. I thought they were all the same. Pictures below:


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Iíve read about the oil galleries and how important it is to clean them on a full rebuild. Iíve pulled the plugs from most of the galleries and tapped them. I was going to use the aluminum plugs but learned itís impossible to remove them once they are in. Iíve decided to use steel ones instead IN CASE this has to come back apart one day.
Motor BEFORE I realized the heads seats were bad and headstuds pulling out. Beginner lesson learned-donít put the motor in until you are sure everything is good to go:(
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Shopping list. I wound up deleting the jet doctors, dowel pins, and not too sure of the serpentine system yet. I purchased a welded, balanced fan and some nice R2C brand air filters. I also purchased a pair of Dellorto drla 40ís and an A1 sidewinder header/exhaust in 1 1/2Ē.
Head choice might be Timís super stockers??
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Last edited by 67 Sunroof on Thu May 30, 2019 8:22 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

I suspect you are going to reuse your 10mm head studs? If yes, I recommend a Dakota digital head temp gauge. If the heads get too hot you risk cracking the case behind #3 regardless of the welded plate behind it. OEM VW 8mm head studs are the true fix of this problem. Don't loc-tite the galley plugs or you will strip out the soft aluminum allen socket when they are removed again. Just use Honda bond. I use steel ones without problems.

Dan
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Thanks Dan. Iíve read MANY of your posts in the past and appreciate any suggestions/help that you can give me. Iíve already purchased about $3,000 worth of things (based on reading threads and doís and dontís)
I understand that everyone has an opinion on building motors and there are many keyboard jockeys out there.
I just want to do the best I can with the knowledge Iíve gained from The Samba and, hopefully, not make any huge mistakes that canít be corrected!
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan
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stevemariott
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.

Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient.
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

stevemariott wrote:
Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.

Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient.


Yeah, I know. They just looked so sexy. Even if no one else sees them I know they are there.
I, generally, take advice and criticism pretty well but when the guy at cb said it was overkill I didnít listen to him. He also said the forged pistons were not necessary but I got those as well. I had them balance the whole assembly as well. I just wanted it to be a smooth running engine without banging the cases too hard. I donít intend on winding it out but just in case I miss a shift or something I want to feel ďcomfortableĒ that the rods arenít going to the moon!
I went with this color because it was modern yet classic as well. Iím extremely happy with my color choice. I second guess things a lot but not the color!!


Last edited by 67 Sunroof on Mon May 13, 2019 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan


Iím at work now but that will be my reading material for this evening when I get home. Thanks again for your offerings.
I understand many shops donít want their ďsecretsĒ to building these motors to get out but the more tricks the better as far as I am concerned.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan


I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Many but not all of my opinions come from these two giants that are no longer with us.

http://www.geneberg.com/index.php

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095&highlight=hugo
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

why do you need two sets of rods?
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

They are good looking rods! Peace of mind is a nice thing to have. Balancing is always a good idea. Mahle forged pistons were considerably cheaper maybe 15 or so years ago, and were the standard. Now one really pays the difference for quality over the cheaper and more commonplace 90.5s.

67 Sunroof wrote:
stevemariott wrote:
Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.

Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient.


Yeah, I know. They just looked so sexy. Even if no one else sees them I know they are there.
I, generally, take advice and criticism pretty well but when the guy at cb said it was overkill I didnít listen to him. He also said the forged pistons were not necessary but I got those as well. I had them balance the whole assembly as well. I just wanted it to be a smooth running engine without banging the cases too hard. I donít intend on winding it out but just in case I miss a shift or something I want to feel ďcomfortableĒ that the rods arenít going to the moon!

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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
why do you need two sets of rods?


Hahaha. You, sir, have a great eye! Wanna build my motor?
That wasnít what I ordered-only one set.
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
Many but not all of my opinions come from these two giants that are no longer with us.

http://www.geneberg.com/index.php

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095&highlight=hugo


Such as low compression ratios? Thatís about all Iíve seen people disagree with Bergís philosophy.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

67 Sunroof wrote:
Dan Ruddock wrote:
Many but not all of my opinions come from these two giants that are no longer with us.

http://www.geneberg.com/index.php

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095&highlight=hugo


Such as low compression ratios? Thatís about all Iíve seen people disagree with Bergís philosophy.


Yes CR is one of them, Gene was also not a fan of aluminum pushrods, I am. There are others but things are different now. Gene died back in 1996.

Dan
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Dan Ruddock wrote:
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan


I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt
Good one!

Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

67 sunroof, you got the H-beams, now a 74 crank drops in.... oh the temptation...... same price 69 vs 74........ but how some extra ccs would be so terrible Very Happy
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Yep, just go for the 74mm now since you are getting the fancy rods. 1904cc with really good 37x32 heads will make a great runner. I would go for a web 163 myself.

Brian
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Dan Ruddock wrote:
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan


I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt
Good one!

Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you.


He asked me for my suggestions and help and I honestly gave him what I believed would help him the most. There a people in the industry I respect that are still alive and I ask them what they think and for better or worse come to my own conclusion. I totally agree with adding more stroke.

"Group think" is not how I come to my conclusions. Many times on many subjects the masses are wrong.

Dan
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

A set of AA P/C's would save you over $200.00. Those Mahle's are complete overkill for a simple "mileage" engine.
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
jpaull wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Dan Ruddock wrote:
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone Shocked if you want. Dan


I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt
Good one!

Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you.


He asked me for my suggestions and help and I honestly gave him what I believed would help him the most. There a people in the industry I respect that are still alive and I ask them what they think and for better or worse come to my own conclusion. I totally agree with adding more stroke.

"Group think" is not how I come to my conclusions. Many times on many subjects the masses are wrong.

Dan


Thanks for the input. I donít wanna start an argument. We are here for the same purpose I think right?

So I have this counterweighted 69 crank from cb and another AE case that has been line bored and case savers installed. I could always get the 74 and use the 69 for the other case....
So, hypothetically speaking..
If I go with a 74. I already had cb balance all of the items. Pistons, rods, clutch, flywheel, crank, etc.
Iím guessing I would have to send it all back to them to rebalance it all?
Iím also guessing I would have to notch the case or is it not necessary with the h beam rods?
Lots of questions just started surfacing.!!!
Brian_e- Iíve followed many of your posts as well and you seem to know your ish also. Thanks for the suggestions/help!!!
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