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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:54 am Post subject: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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So this will be my first official engine build thread. My bug has the chassis complete. I’ve pulled it off the pan and everything has been gone through. Front/Rear airbags suspension is on and working properly too. Wolfsburg West has received my paychecks from the past 2 years with all the new rubber seals and whatnot. I was near the end of my build and had the stock motor started and running with some frd34’s. It was running really well. I decided to drain the oil, check the valves, and put some fresh oil back in. That’s when the trouble started. I noticed the #3 valve wouldn’t adjust properly and found out the seat was beginning to sink in. Crap.
Pulled the motor back out and while I had the heads on figured I would check the head bolt torque. 2 started pulling out of the case. Well shit....
So I’ve been researching rebuild choices and have decided on a 1776 build.
I will attempt to document my FIRST engine build and be asking LOTS of questions and many will be dumb so please bear with me!!
I’ve been a member here for many years and have learned a lot of valuable information from you guys/gals and I DO appreciate it.
My goal is to build a reliable and decent gas mileage engine. I also wanted a bit more pep over the stocker.
To start, I had 2 full AE case motors. I broke both down looking for any obvious issues from the previous owners and checked the cases for cracks. To me they looked ok.
I took both to Sean Dowdle (previous Peek Performance owner) for case inspection. He replied back a few days later telling me both cases were useable. One needed to be align bored .020, and the other .040.
The better case I wound up using...
He welded behind the #3, full flowed it, installed all new case savers, and I decided to have him cut the case for 90.5 cylinders for a 1776 build.
Here are a few photos:
Getting my tools together:
So I’ve picked up both cases. Apparently one of the cases was used in a bus? Someone on here told me because of the way the case was made. I thought they were all the same. Pictures below:
I’ve read about the oil galleries and how important it is to clean them on a full rebuild. I’ve pulled the plugs from most of the galleries and tapped them. I was going to use the aluminum plugs but learned it’s impossible to remove them once they are in. I’ve decided to use steel ones instead IN CASE this has to come back apart one day.
Motor BEFORE I realized the heads seats were bad and headstuds pulling out. Beginner lesson learned-don’t put the motor in until you are sure everything is good to go:(
Shopping list. I wound up deleting the jet doctors, dowel pins, and not too sure of the serpentine system yet. I purchased a welded, balanced fan and some nice R2C brand air filters. I also purchased a pair of Dellorto drla 40’s and an A1 sidewinder header/exhaust in 1 1/2”.
Head choice might be Tim’s super stockers??
Last edited by 67 Sunroof on Thu May 30, 2019 8:22 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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I suspect you are going to reuse your 10mm head studs? If yes, I recommend a Dakota digital head temp gauge. If the heads get too hot you risk cracking the case behind #3 regardless of the welded plate behind it. OEM VW 8mm head studs are the true fix of this problem. Don't loc-tite the galley plugs or you will strip out the soft aluminum allen socket when they are removed again. Just use Honda bond. I use steel ones without problems.
Dan |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Thanks Dan. I’ve read MANY of your posts in the past and appreciate any suggestions/help that you can give me. I’ve already purchased about $3,000 worth of things (based on reading threads and do’s and dont’s)
I understand that everyone has an opinion on building motors and there are many keyboard jockeys out there.
I just want to do the best I can with the knowledge I’ve gained from The Samba and, hopefully, not make any huge mistakes that can’t be corrected! |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
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stevemariott Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 1051 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.
Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient. _________________ 1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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stevemariott wrote: |
Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.
Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient. |
Yeah, I know. They just looked so sexy. Even if no one else sees them I know they are there.
I, generally, take advice and criticism pretty well but when the guy at cb said it was overkill I didn’t listen to him. He also said the forged pistons were not necessary but I got those as well. I had them balance the whole assembly as well. I just wanted it to be a smooth running engine without banging the cases too hard. I don’t intend on winding it out but just in case I miss a shift or something I want to feel “comfortable” that the rods aren’t going to the moon!
I went with this color because it was modern yet classic as well. I’m extremely happy with my color choice. I second guess things a lot but not the color!!
Last edited by 67 Sunroof on Mon May 13, 2019 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
I’m at work now but that will be my reading material for this evening when I get home. Thanks again for your offerings.
I understand many shops don’t want their “secrets” to building these motors to get out but the more tricks the better as far as I am concerned. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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stevemariott Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 1051 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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They are good looking rods! Peace of mind is a nice thing to have. Balancing is always a good idea. Mahle forged pistons were considerably cheaper maybe 15 or so years ago, and were the standard. Now one really pays the difference for quality over the cheaper and more commonplace 90.5s.
67 Sunroof wrote: |
stevemariott wrote: |
Good looking car, I look forward to your engine build.
Not trying to be too negative, but the Super Race Rods are a bit overkill for your cam / combo - Uni-Techs would be sufficient. |
Yeah, I know. They just looked so sexy. Even if no one else sees them I know they are there.
I, generally, take advice and criticism pretty well but when the guy at cb said it was overkill I didn’t listen to him. He also said the forged pistons were not necessary but I got those as well. I had them balance the whole assembly as well. I just wanted it to be a smooth running engine without banging the cases too hard. I don’t intend on winding it out but just in case I miss a shift or something I want to feel “comfortable” that the rods aren’t going to the moon! |
_________________ 1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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theDrew wrote: |
why do you need two sets of rods? |
Hahaha. You, sir, have a great eye! Wanna build my motor?
That wasn’t what I ordered-only one set. |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Such as low compression ratios? That’s about all I’ve seen people disagree with Berg’s philosophy. |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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67 Sunroof wrote: |
Such as low compression ratios? That’s about all I’ve seen people disagree with Berg’s philosophy. |
Yes CR is one of them, Gene was also not a fan of aluminum pushrods, I am. There are others but things are different now. Gene died back in 1996.
Dan |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3460 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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[email protected] wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt |
Good one!
Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3460 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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67 sunroof, you got the H-beams, now a 74 crank drops in.... oh the temptation...... same price 69 vs 74........ but how some extra ccs would be so terrible |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3284 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Yep, just go for the 74mm now since you are getting the fancy rods. 1904cc with really good 37x32 heads will make a great runner. I would go for a web 163 myself.
Brian |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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jpaull wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt |
Good one!
Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you. |
He asked me for my suggestions and help and I honestly gave him what I believed would help him the most. There a people in the industry I respect that are still alive and I ask them what they think and for better or worse come to my own conclusion. I totally agree with adding more stroke.
"Group think" is not how I come to my conclusions. Many times on many subjects the masses are wrong.
Dan |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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A set of AA P/C's would save you over $200.00. Those Mahle's are complete overkill for a simple "mileage" engine. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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67 Sunroof Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014 Posts: 1836 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Sunroof Engine Build |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
[email protected] wrote: |
Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The best advice I can give is use my opinions. I never lock myself to a position but carefully analyze something that differs from my previous conclusions. Yes there are a lot of differing opinions out there. Look a my picture gallery, the products I sell and contact me even by phone if you want. Dan |
I'm going to put this on the back of a t-shirt |
Good one!
Dan, your opinions will be carry some more weight if someone other then yourself is bragging for you. |
He asked me for my suggestions and help and I honestly gave him what I believed would help him the most. There a people in the industry I respect that are still alive and I ask them what they think and for better or worse come to my own conclusion. I totally agree with adding more stroke.
"Group think" is not how I come to my conclusions. Many times on many subjects the masses are wrong.
Dan |
Thanks for the input. I don’t wanna start an argument. We are here for the same purpose I think right?
So I have this counterweighted 69 crank from cb and another AE case that has been line bored and case savers installed. I could always get the 74 and use the 69 for the other case....
So, hypothetically speaking..
If I go with a 74. I already had cb balance all of the items. Pistons, rods, clutch, flywheel, crank, etc.
I’m guessing I would have to send it all back to them to rebalance it all?
I’m also guessing I would have to notch the case or is it not necessary with the h beam rods?
Lots of questions just started surfacing.!!!
Brian_e- I’ve followed many of your posts as well and you seem to know your ish also. Thanks for the suggestions/help!!! |
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