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How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting?
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

Well, obviously you can't even shift without a stick shift... but what I really mean is: "As the stick shift parts get older and looser, how much, and how, does this adversely affect gear shifting?"

I ask because I still suspect that something or other in my linkage is not quite right and adversely affecting shifting - and my stick shift is a bit loose... in that, I can pull up on the knob and it all lifts up 5mm or so.

I am pretty sure my shifting was better before... I totally adjusted the middle and rear part of my linkage, and the parts inside that front "box" are in order, as is my central bushing. But the stick shift itself is a mystery, and kinda loose... probably all original and worn out. Unfortunately I can't get replacement bushing here locally...

Any thoughts? Is this worth digging into and somehow getting my stick shift in top shape - or will the benefits not be anything worth writing home about?

Thanks!
Ed
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

A lot.

It's like driving with worn steering components. Your steering wheel will turn, but the wheels will not.

If the shifter is really worn out, it's hard for the linkage at the transmission to align properly.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

I rebuilt my shifter with T3 parts. Works great now...

http://t3technique.com/suspension-and-drivetrain/d...arts,-etc/
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

It's a known failure point. If you have the symptoms, it's time to do the work...

From another active thread:

Gnarlodious wrote:
You should examine the plastic ball under the gearshift rod. When it wears out it pops apart from the spring inside. From then on shifting is vague and tricky because the whole shifter is loose. If the rod moves up and down easily thatís your prob. A new owner would be excused in thinking that was normal shift action. You can drive with a broken shifter ball (I did it all winter once), and it is pretty easy when you are used to it, but trying to learn that way would be difficult. A broken shifter ball pretty much looks like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You can see the white plastic upper hemisphere stuck up inside the socket, and the spring that keeps it tight like a hinge. A non-broken ball would be held together by hooky tabs, with the spring compressed inside...

No direct experience, but I can't imagine the diesel shifter is any different. Git 'r done! Cool

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

OK, yes I am concerned about this shifter ball. My shifting, when seen from below (with my vid cam) looks really OK, so I don't quite understand how if the shifting "looks good" it still in not good.

Anyhow, I'll go out right now in the cold and rain and have a good look at this 'half-ball'. PART#39 is the culprit.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

Part number 39 is a typical failure item. That with part 38 and both 36 pieces you cover the usual issues. A full kit with more than you need may be the most economical in spite of not needing a lot of it.

Didn't see that stuff on the T3technique link. Other places have it for sure, such as VanCafe who lists both the early 12mm kit and the more common 14mm kit.

Mark
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

I just went out to have a quick peak at the BALL.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I still seams definitely intact - but there is a significant amount of play... check this video:


Link


My shifting is not THAT bad, but bad enough to be concerned. Replacing both hydraulic cylinders definitely helped - but didn't 100% return it to the smooth shifting I had before.

Here is a video from below of my shifting:


Link


crazyvwvanman wrote:
Part number 39 is a typical failure item. That with part 38 and both 36 pieces you cover the usual issues. A full kit with more than you need may be the most economical in spite of not needing a lot of it.

Didn't see that stuff on the T3technique link. Other places have it for sure, such as VanCafe who lists both the early 12mm kit and the more common 14mm kit.

Mark


OK, I will try to find a "kit"... I guess there is an "early version" (12mm?)? That would be for me Smile As usual.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

The Vanagon shifter was probably never great to begin with, and is compounded by the Rube Goldberg system necessitated by the sheer length. Old, hard grease, a bit of dirt, 30+ years of wear and neglect, can all add up to a sloppy shifting mechanism.

The more 'soft' parts (plastic, rubber) that you can replace in the shifting system, the more precise less imprecise it will become.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

Jeffrey Lee wrote:
The Vanagon shifter was probably never great to begin with, and is compounded by the Rube Goldberg system necessitated by the sheer length. Old, hard grease, a bit of dirt, 30+ years of wear and neglect, can all add up to a sloppy shifting mechanism.

The more 'soft' parts (plastic, rubber) that you can replace in the shifting system, the more precise less imprecise it will become.


I get ya!
Time to just replace this old crap.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

...just that 'half ball' Number 39 (251 711 645) is available at many sites for around 5 - 10 $... but it is necessary to get a whole set I wonder... this is around $50 from Poland.

The full kit is 251798116A

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

You might try looking under a different part number: 1131700810

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Reparatursatz-Schalthebel-...2566028688


https://www.ebay.de/p/JP-Group-1131700810/1940750426

I don't know how many truly different makers of the kits there are. These are probably 14mm kits but various sellers claim they cover all years. Don't know.

Mark
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:

https://www.ebay.de/p/JP-Group-1131700810/1940750426


Wow, thanks Mark! I don't know how you found those... this one is really cheap. 27eur incl tax and shipping.

With these new part numbers, if my parts guy can find the stuff, I will get this one from ebay and just rebuild the whole thing...... ....looks pretty tricky to do that however! Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

Good news is that my parts guy can find that JP made one... thanks Mark for that number!
So tomorrow I will install.... I am a bit intimidated so I will begin studying up on how to do this right now > would be very grateful if any knows of any tutorials on this. [sometimes these little fiddly type things with springs etc can be much more difficult than expected]
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

there are a few good tutorials on YT...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djxbIa23_40&t=89s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0_Jyn1Yrv8&t=361s


Last edited by 0to60in6min on Thu May 16, 2019 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

0to60in6min wrote:
there are a few goos tutorial on YT...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djxbIa23_40&t=89s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0_Jyn1Yrv8&t=361s


EXCELLENT! Thanks so much!
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

Take one of your spares and shift it through all the gears with your hand to get a feel for how precise the movement is to select each gear from 14 feet away. What complicates your situation is the modified transaxle mount and the one picture above looks like the last section of shift rod has been modified.

Iím able to visually adjust one, but have a lot of experience setting them. You may need to trial and error the adjustment to find that sweet spot.

And yes, wear, slop, misalignment all affect how well it shifts. One thing to remember is sitting in neutral. Pushing the shift lever straight forward must select 3rd. Pulling straight back selects 4th. No side movement to the right is required. All side movement should be towards your leg to get 1st, 2nd, and reverse. That assumes left hand drive.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Take one of your spares and shift it through all the gears with your hand to get a feel for how precise the movement is to select each gear from 14 feet away. What complicates your situation is the modified transaxle mount and the one picture above looks like the last section of shift rod has been modified.

Iím able to visually adjust one, but have a lot of experience setting them. You may need to trial and error the adjustment to find that sweet spot.

And yes, wear, slop, misalignment all affect how well it shifts. One thing to remember is sitting in neutral. Pushing the shift lever straight forward must select 3rd. Pulling straight back selects 4th. No side movement to the right is required. All side movement should be towards your leg to get 1st, 2nd, and reverse. That assumes left hand drive.


From my video above showing the shifting when engine was not running - to me seems like very good shifting..... so what I suspect is that when the engine is actually running, and all other push and pull factors come into play, then under those circumstances the slop, play, and misalignment of the system must show up in bad shifting.... perhaps it is not enough just to get good shifting when the van is on the ground and not running.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

If you have a helper, set the brake and while you stand behind the van looking down on the engine running. Have your helper select first gear and let the clutch out enough to load the engine. You will see the crankpulley end of the engine moves down quite a bit under load. That changes the shift shaft linkage angles considerably.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
If you have a helper, set the brake and while you stand behind the van looking down on the engine running. Have your helper select first gear and let the clutch out enough to load the engine. You will see the crankpulley end of the engine moves down quite a bit under load. That changes the shift shaft linkage angles considerably.


aha... there you go.
I was thinking more about how the inner workings, when under load, would affect shifting also >>> like, it's one thing to shift thru the gears when the engine is not running, but with the engine under load there must be varying types of resistance on the shifter which might not like the balls being moved at a certain angle?

Anyhow, tomorrow I will change the stick shift, and if that doesn't help it I'll have another look at the entire linkage.
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How much influence does the STICK SHIFT have on shifting? Reply with quote

A couple of years ago, my shifting seemed to become a little looser and I ignored it, UNTIL: a few days later the shifter broke clean off close to the boot. Luckily I was in a parking lot about a mile from home, and was able to limp home in second gear. Even more fortunately I happened to have a spare shifter at home.
Which reminds me, I need to find another spare!
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