Type 3 Valve Adjustment

[Steve65cobra]

APOLOGIES IF THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN ALREADY DISCUSSED. I searched and could not find, so I am soliciting y'all's opinions.

Recently I set out to adjust the valves in my '66 Squareback and discovered two bent aluminum push rods. Purchased a new set of stock aluminum push rods, carefully installed them, torqued the rocker arm assembly to 18 ft. lbs., and began to set the valve lash. One of the well-known VW suppliers told me to set both intake and exhaust at 0.006", contrary to the 0.004" as mentioned in my Robert Bentley Factory Manual (dated 1974). The Haynes Manual states 0.006" and even goes as far as to advise removal of any stickers which state anything other than 0.006".

So I adjusted them at 0.006", and she is MUCH noisier than before. I'm going to re-adjust them to 0.004" unless y'all can give me other suggestions. I recall my father's '64 Squareback (Variant 1500S) required the valves to be adjusted every 3,000 miles which seemed to be about twice as often than Beetles...if memory serves correct!
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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[Erik G]

yes, they are noisy. probably noisier when the pushrods are not full of oil. I also use .006 on all, most people do. why were your pushrods bent? what is your valve adjust procedure? are you sure you're adjusting them while both valves are close?

what part of Houston are you in?
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[Steve65cobra]

Valve adjust procedure per the book. Set #1 cylinder at TDC and adjust both valves. Rotate engine CCW 180-degrees (I also marked the distributor housing at 90-degree increments from the groove indicating #1 on the distributor housing) and adjusted #2 cylinder valves. Rotated engine 180-degrees CCW and adjusted #3 cylinder valves, and finally rotated engine another 180-degrees CCW to adjust #4 valves.

I acquired this car only a month ago and while the engine ran VERY smoothly, it lacked power. When I went to initially adjust the valves, I noted #2 intake push rod not making contact with the rocker arm. Evidently, it became bent somehow and over a period of time, bent some more and eventually lost contact with the rocker arm. This would account for lack of power, obviously. Photos below as well as photo of replacement push rods.

Noting this, I assumed whomever worked on this car last (or rebuilt the engine) did not have the rocker arm adjustment stems completely loose and perhaps a push rod was not properly seated in the rocker arm socket. Doesn't take much to bend aluminum. Therefore, I ordered a new set of eight ( aluminum push rods. I did not want chrome moly as my engine is box stock and will remain so.

I am located in the Clear Lake area.

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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[KTPhil]

Check the geometry of the rocker shaft and arms, and how they align with the pushrods. If shimmed/sprung badly, the misalignment can cause this... and worse.

[Erik G]

ok, a little too far for me to pop over and take a look and listen, I'm in the oak forest area. It would be good to see how it's timed as overall running as well.

where is the #1 notch on your distributor, and which line on your pulley are you using for TDC?

I've had probably 20 vw's in 25 years and never had a bent pushrod, so thats why I asked that. have you driven it since the valve adjust? does it have more power and otherwise feel right? Phil is right too
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[Steve65cobra]

Believe I used the middle notch...and now that I think about it, it might be a degree or three off.

Have not set the timing...replacement points, condenser, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, just came in and it was next on the list after the valve lash adjustment.

With the valve adjustment I performed, she has significantly more power now. Just that darned valve train chatter....

Wife (boss) calling...must go. Thanks for commenting...I'll follow-up tomorrow.
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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[Erik G]

10 degrees off. you need the far left one here, left of the #1. retry that, lets see how much quieter it is these marks are TDC --> 7.5 -->10 --> 12.5

let us know. We can walk you through timing as well, will need to see what distributor you are running, the book may be wrong for your distributor.

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[gt1953]

As far as the valve adjustment, mine are a snug .005 thousands. Some noise and always the same when checking them.
Always nice to see the pulley all marked up as a reminder.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[Multi69s]

One thing that I see is that looks like a brand new engine. There is absolutely no built up carbon or sludge in the rocker arm area. So either someone did an excellent job of bead, or vapour blasting, or the heads have been replaced.

So we know the engine has been apart. The part that bothers me is the progressive increase in valve lash., then bent pushrods. It takes a lot of force to bend a stock pushrod. It has to fall out of alignment, with the rocker arm, then get jammed into something, and the cam lift bends it. What can cause this, because most problems aren't immediate. Because of the progressive nature, I am concerned about lifter or cam failure. If you lose a cam, lash in 2 and 4 would both increase. However, if it's lifter failure, only 2 might be involved.

Reset up the valve train and see if there is a difference between rocker arm movement between the cylinders.
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Steve65cobra]

Thank y'all very much! I shall attack the project tomorrow as soon as I return home from work! Everyone's comments make sense and I sincerely appreciate the help!

Got my first VW back in 1971...an oval window '55 Bug for $25! Later when I was a freshman in college, I bought a '69 Squareback (Dad already had his '64 Squareback). And countless, and I do mean countless, VW's thereafter. Doing the math I guess I've been playing with these cars for 48 years, and one is never too old to learn something (or rather, the RIGHT way to do something).

I'll report back tomorrow if I am able to verify all of the valve clearances.
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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[Steve65cobra]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[Steve65cobra]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR Y'ALL'S INPUT!!!

I used the correct timing mark, went through the valve adjustment procedure one more time (this time setting them at 0.005"), and when I got to #4, both valves had excessive clearance...and I mean excessive! That was my chatter.

Long story short is she drives like a new car...and I haven't even replaced the plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, points, or condenser yet! Wish I could post the video of how she sounds. This is the way I remember my college Type 3 Variant running!!
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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[Slow 1200]

good job! just for the record, sometimes valve tips get worn in the middle and the actual clearance is higher that what you set it to with the feeler gauge

[Erik G]

good stuff! hope to see you at one of the shows, or at the kemah home depot saterday shows (there are some type 3's that show up, a type34 and a fuel injected type4 powerd notchback) if you see those guys, tell 'em Erik says hi
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[Steve65cobra]

Will do, Erik!
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"He who is without oil shall throw the first rod." Compressions 10.5:1

[kaeferman]

Hello folks,
I have decided to introduce my recent adoption of a survivor 71 Squareback. I need to do a tuneup and fix a few things. It’s previous owner recently passed and the car was her father’s. It never left the family. I guess its a two owner car then, but is in remarkable shape and everything works mostly. Driver window needs love amd it has two nasty exhausr leaks. It drives slow and sounds like poop but really runs ok considering the leaking exhaust and that it has been sitting for years. But she kept it a garage and maintained the car well over the years as it feels like its totally original. I think the headliner is OG and has not amsingle tear!

This is where i found her.. fired right up the first time i hit the key.

Dusty but dry on the top half at least.

Its garage mate was a 70 bug, both were driven by the old lady regularly until the last few years before she died. She had no other car her whole life that i know of. I was told her father had been VW mechanic and i found a Wolfsburg registration card with his name on it saying the car was delivered to Miami,FL in 71. My buddy bought the bug for his wife. Its body is in even better shape than the Squareback...

B

[Mike Fisher]

Start your own survivor '71 build thread, so we can keep track of your square easier.
Most of us put our location in our signature that makes it easier for help/parts etc.
Looks like you have some new black fuel hose on top of your engine, but replace ALL original cloth covered hose you find as it will spring pinhole fuel leaks!
Adding popout rear windows would be a good upgrade if you live in a hot climate. I use mine in Oregon, which is not an especially hot climate.
It's original when it still has the rubber plug covering the timing light hole!

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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Bobnotch]

Yup, nice survivor Squareback. Yes, replace ALL of the fuel hose in it (about 25 feet), and 34 FI style hose clamps, as we'd hate to hear about your new ride burning down. Starting your own thread is a great idea too, as it allows you to update it as you do stuff to it.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[kaeferman]

Sure, i can start a build thread. Survivor ‘71 i guess works for a title. I ll update my profile too. I spent all day remembering how to adjust valves, got the exhaust leaks patched for a while i hope. Cleaned crud fromthe block underneath. Somebody drove dirt roads often enough apparently

I also killed alot of time cleaning/painting parts for my wife’s 84 tintop vanagon engine i’m getting ready to install. I’m new to type 3s, but I went through a bunch of crap with my 83 camper’s FI digijet sys a while back and i hope i m a sort of primed for figuring out the FI sytem that this thing has. I know its a whole differnt animal but there has to be some cross over ...i hope Although, i m never really sure i know anything about that wbx FI in vans, they can really fight you sometimes...

Thanks for the warning on fuel lines. I’m well aware of the disaster lurcking under that canvas. I think these cars are like the Vanagons there a little too-designed with unfortunately high fuel pressure, right? I just ordered a BlazeCut hose for it and i always roll with a large fire extinguisher in an old vw. Did you guys hear of the Kidde B/C plastic neck fire ext.recall? They sent me two free and they were bigger than what i sent them!
B

[kaeferman]

Thanks guys too for the replies. Yes Mike Fisher, i m with you on the pop outs. I put them in my old super beetle and they were killer to have down south with no ac. They also eliminated the bub-bub wind percussion sound you get at 55 with both windows down that used to drive me nuts as a kid riding around in my folks bug. I already found a pair on ebay and they re on the way! I need to get latches though. I ll start my thread tonite and try to put up some more pics of the car and goodies i found in it. They gave us 5 or six boxes of parts and stuff witht the cars.
B
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83 Westfalia wbx “Idaho”
84 Tintop “Vanamos”
formerly
71 Squareback sold
70 Westfalia lost to fire by new owner
71 Super Beetle rolled/scrapped