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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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alternating closed throttle and WOT, prefferably uphill, so big WOT doesn't lead to big rpm.
the idea is to let oil around at closed throttle, and at WOT, at peak torque rpm, that's when you push the rings to the cylinder walls with the most force and pressure. That's what wears them in.
I use thin oil on the first run, dyno straight 20. After the first drain, i repeat at 500km, and again at 1000km. By then I've also stepped up from the 20 to some 30 weight.
After that, I've been using Mobil 1, but that's probably a mistake, i really don't know.
I have seen pitting on my lifters, though, on disassemlby after years of use. Not sure when it happened, I assume with considerable use rather than on break-in, and related to metallurgy. Don't know. Also, I don't get pitting using cb lifters and cb cams, or the ones using the same blank. I wrote down what goes with what, someplace.
I've never lost a lobe yet. Oh, no! Ahh, crap, I shouldn't have written that out loud...so I guess my next engine is doomed. Oh, well, it was a good run.
I run with whatever springs are on it. Besides, changing springs in situ is a massive pain. But I've never run super heavy duals or triples or anything like that. Don't care: i'm going to get beehives for my next engine, or if I change heads. I've been trying to use as little spring as I need. |
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jeffrey8164 
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Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3817
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Don’t forget that Zinc has a high SPF too 
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Davada66 wrote: |
| first of all 30 weight break in oil. second run at 2500 rpm for 20 minuets third drain oil, add new break in oil let the motor completely cool over night second day start motor bring up the temperature and set your carbs. to sync, run the second oil for 500 miles reset valves refill oil with a high ZDDP motor oil, do not push hills for at least 800 miles vary high way speeds do not exceed 60 mph. and stay near home for a while just take it easy for the first 2000miles it will break in really well this way. |
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with the need to "baby" a new engine the first 2000 miles. After the initial 20-30 minute break in drive it like you stole it. If you did something wrong it is gonna break and babying the engine won't stop it from self destructing. The rings need hard driving to break in quickly.
The printed instructions that come with Engle cams say 1500-1800 RPM for 20-30 minutes |
Im with davy on this. but I dont use broken oil,just std dino oil with zinc additive in the first batch only. change oil AND FILTER after 35 min max. then refill with good dino oil and let cool, adjust the ;ash, run for a hour and change oil AND FILTER. refill with good oil. you can drive it, you need to drive it and you need to load the rings good.me I drive it like a stole it, then change oil AND FILTER after about 3 hours of good run time. I usualy have 5 oil AND FILTER changes in the first week. I usualy go to synthetic oil on the 5.( after drianing the 4th, comes the 5th.) I do not add extra zinc to any oil other than when the motor is built.ZINC IS NOT GOOD FOR THE ENGINE AFTER BREAKIN!!!! oils have zinc in them, it should be enough.it always has been for the engines I build. quackerstate high millage has a little more zinc than most other oils.it is a syn dino blend oil.used to be labeled as deffy with added zinc. now it just high millage. according to the engineers at quackerstate oil all engine oil has zinc in it. much lower than it was 20 years ago,but it still has zinc. they formulated the deffy/high millage for the older engines that did not have roller cams. so why the reformulation with less zinc??? BECAUSE the older high levels of ZINC IS NOT GOOD TO RUN IN A ENGINE THAT IS BROKEN IN. umless your a moron that likes detonation, preeignition, bad deposits in the chambers and piston tops that glow...and probably some other not so good things I have long forgotten about. with that said you DO need to use the sink after working on any thing or cooking dinner and after using the restroom.every time!!! |
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c77owen
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Joined: July 07, 2017
Posts: 454
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| I am running the same cam and double springs and did the break in with the double springs in place, no problem. Proper break in oil (high zinc content or additive) and fluctuating RPM 1800-2300. I am running dual 48 IDAs and MSD ignition and mine likes to idle at 1000 RPM once warmed up. Once break in is complete, cooled back to ambient room temp, adjust valves, change oil and filter, and drive it how you are going to drive it |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| Davada66 wrote: |
| first of all 30 weight break in oil. second run at 2500 rpm for 20 minuets third drain oil, add new break in oil let the motor completely cool over night second day start motor bring up the temperature and set your carbs. to sync, run the second oil for 500 miles reset valves refill oil with a high ZDDP motor oil, do not push hills for at least 800 miles vary high way speeds do not exceed 60 mph. and stay near home for a while just take it easy for the first 2000miles it will break in really well this way. |
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with the need to "baby" a new engine the first 2000 miles. After the initial 20-30 minute break in drive it like you stole it. If you did something wrong it is gonna break and babying the engine won't stop it from self destructing. The rings need hard driving to break in quickly.
The printed instructions that come with Engle cams say 1500-1800 RPM for 20-30 minutes
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Davada66
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Joined: July 07, 2017
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| forgot to mention that you need the rpm and the heat of the engine to properly break in the cam and lifters and help seat the piston rings, rings wont properly and totally seal properly until you get some millage on them. Then you can push a hill to really load the rings and they will totally be seated against the jugs |
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Davada66
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Joined: July 07, 2017
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| first of all 30 weight break in oil. second run at 2500 rpm for 20 minuets third drain oil, add new break in oil let the motor completely cool over night second day start motor bring up the temperature and set your carbs. to sync, run the second oil for 500 miles reset valves refill oil with a high ZDDP motor oil, do not push hills for at least 800 miles vary high way speeds do not exceed 60 mph. and stay near home for a while just take it easy for the first 2000miles it will break in really well this way. |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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Personally I'd shoot for 900-1000.
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db69
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Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| db69 wrote: |
| I’m trying to finish up my new 2332 and all I like finishing is the heads my plan is either super pros or mini wedge ports. But anyway my question is this I have fk8 cam and 1.4 rockers and most likely dual springs the instructions from Engle say remove inner springs and break in at 2000 rpms for 20 minutes. Should I have the heads shipped without the inner springs for break in then try to muscle them in with the motor in the car or remove motor to reinstall? Or what? This may sound stupid but would it be possible to attach an electric motor to the crank and break in the cam before installing the motor? How do you guys get the springs on and off during break in? |
Fk8 |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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You haven't even told us what cam you are using yet.
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db69
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Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| arizonabuckeye wrote: |
| Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
Sorry didn’t see “idle” 6500 would be a little loud at idle!  |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| arizonabuckeye wrote: |
| Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
I set engines with single valve springs 750-800. Dual valve springs needs more oiling and I set the idle around 900-950
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db69
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Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| My first “big motor” but cam is supposed to pull to 6500rpm. I guess we will see! |
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arizonabuckeye
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Location: SLC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| Whats a target idle RPM for a build like this? |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| db69 wrote: |
| Thanks for all the feedback I think I will break it in with the springs in place. |
Follow the instructions that came with an Engle cam 1500-1800 RPM for 20-30 minutes. After you run the engine it is also very important to allow the engine to completely cool 10-12 hours to "normalize". Adjust valves and change the oil/filter then you are ready to drive it.
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db69
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Joined: July 22, 2013
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Location: east TN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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| Thanks for all the feedback I think I will break it in with the springs in place. |
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oldschool5er
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I break mine in on the stand or on a Dyno. I do not remove the inner spring unless it is a cam that I am using that has what I consider a non standard profile that your average builder won't be using. I use standard Engle stuff on most builds keeping at or near .550 total Lift. I use Dino 30w non detergent break in oil with high zinc. In my case I have never had a flat cam come back so I stick with what works for me.
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
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Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:43 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I run them with the dual springs in for break-in. They make a tool to change the springs while the engine is in the car.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Heavy-Duty-Valve-Spri...ol-buy.htm
ACN will also rent you the tool.
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mcmscott
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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I have never changed anything on an engine from brake in to final running in the car. Same valve springs are used from the time the engine is built to the time it is gone.
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67rustavenger
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:13 am Post subject: Re: New engine break in questions |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380203
I did mine on the garage floor out of the car.
I have a cut bellhousing and attach a starter to it. Connect the fuel lines and a very simple wiring system.
I just run off a well charged battery for breakin and after tuning. Again this is all done with the engine out of the car.
FWIW, I broke mine in with the dual springs in place.
Good Luck.
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