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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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 Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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Interested in learning what everyone is doing with their fuel tank vent line w/o the use of the charcoal canister.
I'm sure that > 90% of buses do not have the full charcoal canister system working or even present. So what is everyone doing with their fuel vent line? My guess is letting it vent into the engine bay via the hardline exiting above the passenger wheel well? But this can't be ideal correct? I read that in Europe this line was tied back into the air cleaner, but that cant be good either due to potential backfire?
I have exhausted the search function and tried to talk to every bus owner I know with no avail. I did see a pic of a '68 double cab vent exiting in the filler well above the gas cap. Is that a decent idea to at least vent to the outside of the bus?
I have my engine out, replacing the rubber lines on the vent system as well as the filler neck and cap. I'm trying to find a solution and would love to hear what everyone else is doing/ not doing for venting.
Thanks in advance! |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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Pick up a charcoal canister and hook it up. They’re routinely cheap at swap meets. Plumb it to the tank, fan shroud, and stock air filter.
In the USA, 68-70 federal buses vented to the gas flap like in the picture you posted. 70 California and all 71+ buses used the charcoal canister. The stock air filter functions as a flame arrestor; it’s all in the system. 
You’ll appreciate the lack of fuel smell when you do it properly.
See you on the road,
Robbie
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Pick up a charcoal canister and hook it up. They’re routinely cheap at swap meets. Plumb it to the tank, fan shroud, and stock air filter.
In the USA, 68-70 federal buses vented to the gas flap like in the picture you posted. 70 California and all 71+ buses used the charcoal canister. The stock air filter functions as a flame arrestor; it’s all in the system.
You’ll appreciate the lack of fuel smell when you do it properly.
See you on the road,
Robbie |
I don't have a stock air cleaner, charcoal canister, canister mount, and the air cleaner pedestal has been cut off. I won't be going this route but I appreciate your reply. In the future I will be building a dual carb engine as well, which many owners have currently. Looking for advice on venting to the gas flap, which sounds like the best option.
There is no other filtration system that works similarly? |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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No idea what to do with dual carbs, sorry.
When deleting the canister, cap off the nipple on the top right of the fan shroud if it had one.
Robbie
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5994
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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You would not want to vent into the engine compartment mainly because of the possibility of pumping gas fumes into the cabin via the heating system (remember that the engine cooling fan is the source of air for the cabin heat).
If you are not going to hook up the charcoal system, then at least direct the vent out somewhere below the tin so the fumes don't have a path into the engine compartment.
Venting to the gas cap area is also a decent option.
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j10nbom
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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Bumping this old thread.
I'm trying to find a solution to this same problem on my '71 because I'm moving to dual carbs and a bigger motor soon and want to ditch the charcoal canister. I'm considering doing a loop, similarly to how 60's beetles did on the fuel filler, but coming out of the charcoal vent line, drilling a hole in the wheel well, and venting out towards the front of the wheel well.
I also toyed with the idea of just capping off the charcoal canister line and drilling a very small hole in the gas cap - which is definitely the easiest option. However, I don't love the idea of having fuel potentially spilling out in case of an accident.
Probably my biggest concern is any venting option where the breather hose is close to something hot. I'm leaning towards the venting out of the wheel well option..maybe even running a line to the driver's side wheel well to vent away from my quiet pack muffler. |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| j10nbom wrote: |
Bumping this old thread.
I'm trying to find a solution to this same problem on my '71 because I'm moving to dual carbs and a bigger motor soon and want to ditch the charcoal canister. I'm considering doing a loop, similarly to how 60's beetles did on the fuel filler, but coming out of the charcoal vent line, drilling a hole in the wheel well, and venting out towards the front of the wheel well.
I also toyed with the idea of just capping off the charcoal canister line and drilling a very small hole in the gas cap - which is definitely the easiest option. However, I don't love the idea of having fuel potentially spilling out in case of an accident.
Probably my biggest concern is any venting option where the breather hose is close to something hot. I'm leaning towards the venting out of the wheel well option..maybe even running a line to the driver's side wheel well to vent away from my quiet pack muffler. |
Glad you posted a follow up to this, I don't think I ever did after solving my issue.
I ended up running a vent line out to the gas fill well, like so:
I ended up drilling a hole on the inner panel just forward of where the vent normally attaches to the hard line en route to the charcoal canister on the passenger side. With a grommet, I ran the vent line from the hard line on top of the tank straight out into the fill well. I also like this because if any fuel did work its way up the vent line, it could drain through the well drain like spilled fuel at a fill up.
Solved my issues, and don't have any odor in the car any longer. I also thought of the vented cap idea, as well as plugging the vent all together, but I'm glad I went this route. Wish I would have taken a pic or 2 of the final product for reference. Hope this helps. |
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j10nbom
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Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| Thanks BYeaton, I like your solution. Definitely a clever way of plumbing! |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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don't stand in front of it when you are pumping fuel.
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BYeaton
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Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| don't stand in front of it when you are pumping fuel. |
Not sure how it's any different than how they did it in '68, pictured below. I think the point is the vapors can escape into the atmosphere versus into the cabin.
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j10nbom
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Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| BYeaton wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| don't stand in front of it when you are pumping fuel. |
Not sure how it's any different than how they did it in '68, pictured below. I think the point is the vapors can escape into the atmosphere versus into the cabin.
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Agreed, I guess if you're really trying to emulate an earlier bay you could put an L shaped barb on the end and vent the same direction, assuming getting fumes in your face is the issue. But if it isn't bothering you already I can't imagine it matters much. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| j10nbom wrote: |
| BYeaton wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| don't stand in front of it when you are pumping fuel. |
Not sure how it's any different than how they did it in '68, pictured below. I think the point is the vapors can escape into the atmosphere versus into the cabin.
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Agreed, I guess if you're really trying to emulate an earlier bay you could put an L shaped barb on the end and vent the same direction, assuming getting fumes in your face is the issue. But if it isn't bothering you already I can't imagine it matters much. |
how do you feel about being drenched in gas if it burps? That was the point.
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j10nbom
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| SGKent wrote: |
how do you feel about being drenched in gas if it burps? That was the point. |
But wouldn't that only be an issue if the gas tank is pressurized? I imagine if it is vented properly, and it looks like this method would work fine, why would it be burping? Not trying to get into an argument, just curious because maybe there's something I'm missing. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| j10nbom wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
how do you feel about being drenched in gas if it burps? That was the point. |
But wouldn't that only be an issue if the gas tank is pressurized? I imagine if it is vented properly, and it looks like this method would work fine, why would it be burping? Not trying to get into an argument, just curious because maybe there's something I'm missing. |
Gas just burps out of early bay vents sometimes, even if you're super careful while fueling. I've resigned to sticking the pump on full blast and keeping my drain hole clear. But the early bay vent is longitudinal in the bus, so gas won't physically splash out of the fuel filler area.
A windy New England road with an excessively full fuel tank sometimes results in a little slick spot inboard of the right rear tire. It's often accompanied by strong fuel odor, and is a result of the cool fuel heating up from powertrain heat shedding, allowing the tank fuel to expand and physically pour out the vent tube. It's nice to have a full gas tank, but don't go overboard if the conditions are twisty.
And for as much fun as DIY projects are, new canisters are available, though shaped like a cylinder, and not ovular. That would have been my first choice.
Robbie
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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| j10nbom wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
how do you feel about being drenched in gas if it burps? That was the point. |
But wouldn't that only be an issue if the gas tank is pressurized? I imagine if it is vented properly, and it looks like this method would work fine, why would it be burping? Not trying to get into an argument, just curious because maybe there's something I'm missing. |
I have seen them spit fuel out. Normally the vent is set up to drain down near the rear tire and not aimed right at you. I'd put a 90 on that one and aim it down. Sometimes static can set it off too, I wouldn't want it on me in a static situation like this.
Link
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SmokerF15
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Joined: September 16, 2018
Posts: 47
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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'72 dual carbs, 2.0L
Reinstalling a charcoal canister and hooking up vent lines the PO disconnected/closed off. Just realized why he may have done that--they seem to be clogged. Before I go cutting the lines to investigate, I'm assuming one should be able to blow some amount of compressed air through them. Is this correct?
The small amount of line that jogs around the canister is clogged, which got me thinking the rest of it may have some blocks.
BTW, what are the larger bulbed parts in the vertical line near the upper intakes for, cooling? expansion?
Thank You
Smoker F15 |
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busdaddy
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Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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All the lines should be able to be blown through, careful with the compressed air unless you have the tank panel off, you risk pushing a hose off a line, they aren't clamped. A length of small diameter braided cable, like bicycle brake cable in a drill might be helpful in this case.
The bulbs in the vent scoops are indeed expansion chambers, or liquid separators you could say.
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SmokerF15
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Joined: September 16, 2018
Posts: 47
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Early Bay Fuel Tank Vent Line |
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Thanks BusDaddy! I’ll try the cable act.
SmokerF15 |
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