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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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RANT: ok so it always has to happen on July 4th, but the diaphram belville springs they're using in KENNEDY 2500lb pressure plates sure don't hold up like they used to...maybe two SHORT (up here) racing seasons and then they don't release sufficiently anymore with missed shifts and the like. Problem is, the life expectancy varies and there's no warning when the spring is about to give up the ghost.
I remember the good, old days of the 3-finger Kennedy Stage Three 2700lb pressure plates (circa 1970-1993)...they'd last longer than the engine ever could, and for that matter would hold up through years and years of abuse. Lucky me, I just found one NOS and I'm gonna put that in instead.
FYI....I've got a CNC hydraulic clutch setup which does NOT overextend the diaphram spring of the pressure plate, I've checked the travel. They just don't make 'em like they used to, IMHO. |
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Mr. Unpopular Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3715 Location: Tampa Florida
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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michla wrote: |
FYI....I've got a CNC hydraulic clutch setup which does NOT overextend the diaphram spring of the pressure plate, I've checked the travel. They just don't make 'em like they used to, IMHO. |
In the case of CNC, they don't make 'em AT ALL anymore. Times they are a changin. _________________ "In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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Mr. Unpopular wrote: |
In the case of CNC, they don't make 'em AT ALL anymore. Times they are a changin. |
Boy is that the truth !! China is trying to copy-cat the old days (aka: Empi) but it ain't working....they don't last a couple of races |
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amrcnbadaz Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2004 Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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Is there much of a market for old NOS kennedy 2500# clutches? I have one from early 90's (I think) still in the box, along with a feramic metal woven disc. I would have to look at it to find the exact year. I have thought about using it in my current car, but don't need something that violent for a street car. _________________ Former Snorkelstang owning, abortion driver. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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amrcnbadaz wrote: |
Is there much of a market for old NOS kennedy 2500# clutches? I have one from early 90's (I think) still in the box, along with a feramic metal woven disc. I would have to look at it to find the exact year. I have thought about using it in my current car, but don't need something that violent for a street car. |
Indeed there is....folks like me running an 86 stroke making torque need the Stage 3 clutches and Kennedy boasts now that their diaphram plates are the solution. Well, I just removed mine from 2016 and one of the "triangle straps" was completely broken off and the rest were wavy like a sound wave ! I wrote Kennedy just awhile ago telling them of my plight because that's the weak link in their design. Meanwhile, I'm going for the NOS stuff myself, just purchased one on Ebay. What are you asking for yours and if so, is it used or? |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16801 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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it's not just them.
I used a southbend setup in a 1.8T build I did. pretty conservative, couple trix and a tune...about 250 horse give or take. anyway right from the fucking getgo the clutch felt like a water balloon. called vendor "do the 500 mile break in and call us back"
fuckers
I didn't want to put a mile on it, let alone 500. about 100 miles in I jumped on the highway in 4th, rolled into it building boost and weeeeee all the way to red line. got into 5th at 70 and rolled into it only to see the tach go boing.
called them again. off course, it was my fault. grease on the disk, didn't use new hardware, old flywheel. emailed them all of the dealer invoices for new shit. anyway, ended up with a SPEC that is a bit overkill, and not super stop and go friendly.
in the end, the pressure plate was dished about 80 thou and it was only grabbing the outer edge of the disk. they refunded my $$ and about 2 weeks after receiving it I got a call...they had 2 more do the same thing.
I told them yep.... "we do things right because we do them twice" what really pisses me off are these vendors who "never seen that before" and honestly, had I not been a legit shop I bet they would have told me to pack it. In they end they did good, but I told the guy they were only 8hrs away and I would have heaved the clutch thru their showroom window had they not issued a refund _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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amrcnbadaz Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2004 Posts: 67
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:24 am Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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michla wrote: |
Indeed there is....folks like me running an 86 stroke making torque need the Stage 3 clutches and Kennedy boasts now that their diaphram plates are the solution. Well, I just removed mine from 2016 and one of the "triangle straps" was completely broken off and the rest were wavy like a sound wave ! I wrote Kennedy just awhile ago telling them of my plight because that's the weak link in their design. Meanwhile, I'm going for the NOS stuff myself, just purchased one on Ebay. What are you asking for yours and if so, is it used or? |
I just took a couple pics of what I have. I was wrong about one thing, it is a 2300# plate. Made in Aug 93. Never bolted on, just sitting in a box in my shed. I should have the t/o bearing, I just need to look deeper in the box. I would consider selling. Chances are I will not build another drag car. I have no idea what a brand new 26 year old clutch would be worth though?
_________________ Former Snorkelstang owning, abortion driver. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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amrcnbadaz wrote: |
I would consider selling. |
PM'ing you now |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
it's not just them.
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Welcome to the new world of "Made in USA" with massive Chinese production run parts real cheap. Mark that sucker up and make a huge profit at the expense of the user and loose the faithful business
Yup, us Americans are shooting ourselves in the foot making a fast buck lately. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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I just found one for $75.
The 3 fingers have coil springs, and if they get surface rust the springs will be compromised. Check first....
Just a recent example:
_________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.
Last edited by jpaull on Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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jpaull wrote: |
The 3 fingers have coil springs, and if they get surface rust the springs will be compromised. Check first....
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good point, thank you
by the way, this seller literally removed the fingers and coil springs and SPRAY-PAINTED the plate to make it look new !! Kennedy never painted those strap-braces.
Last edited by michla on Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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michla wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
The 3 fingers have coil springs, and if they get surface rust the springs will be compromised. Check first....
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good point, thank you
by the way, this seller literally removed the fingers and coil springs and SPRAY-PAINTED the plate to make it look new !! Kennedy never painted those strap-braces |
Yes, I noticed that too. Not exactly NOS _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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jpaull wrote: |
Yes, I noticed that too. Not exactly NOS |
Me thinks you bought a slightly used plate |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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michla wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
Yes, I noticed that too. Not exactly NOS |
Me thinks you bought a slightly used plate |
Definately repainted. Could be "remanufactured" but The clutch surface appears untouched. Doesnt look used or remachined so it could have been sitting and they decided to take it apart and freshen up. For 75 Im happy to check the holding power. The 3 finger style have a nicer feel then the diaphram. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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jpaull wrote: |
The clutch surface appears untouched. Doesnt look used or remachined so it could have been sitting and they decided to take it apart and freshen up. For 75 Im happy to check the holding power. The 3 finger style have a nicer feel then the diaphram. |
If it was me I'd either have a shop check the flatness of the shoe or at least lay a straight-edge across it and see how much of a feeler gauge you can get under at any point, especially toward the center. More than .010" and I'd have it resurfaced if it was me. |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3456 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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michla wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
The clutch surface appears untouched. Doesnt look used or remachined so it could have been sitting and they decided to take it apart and freshen up. For 75 Im happy to check the holding power. The 3 finger style have a nicer feel then the diaphram. |
If it was me I'd either have a shop check the flatness of the shoe or at least lay a straight-edge across it and see how much of a feeler gauge you can get under at any point, especially toward the center. More than .010" and I'd have it resurfaced if it was me. |
Yes absalutly _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: from the"That's Racing" Department: SAD PRESSURE PLATES LATELY |
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Michla,
I saw your new clutch, pressure plate and flywheel today. When I was picking up my new trans and axles.
Damn! That is one hell of a setup. It should hold up well for your use.
The builder has asked that I not reveal his information. Sorry guy's.
Michla had to sign a non-disclosure agreement before the builder sent any pics of the setup.
Good Luck _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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