Oil temps on 1679

[rodeking]

Another oil temp thread. I've put about 250 mi on my 1679 in a '65 double cab. Specs are AS41 dual relief case, 8.4 CR with CB 2280 cam, .040 deck, single 34 PICT, 049 DVDA dizzy w/o retard, doghouse cooler, full flowed, Roy's super street heads, some kind of aftermarket exhaust with stock heat X'ers, central muffler, four pipes out the back. Presently running timing at 29 with 89 octane. yesterday with ambient at 90 the oil temp got to about 235 running at 50-55. Stock trans with RGB's. This seems hot to me, would rather see 200-210. Presently using 10W-30. All the stock tin, seals in place. I removed the bellows thermostat to see if the vanes were sticking closed, they are wide open. I'm going to look at plugs today, check timing, valves etc. Maybe bump timing to 31? 15 psi OP at idle at those temps. Both relief pistons were polished and checked for free movement.

Engine runs great with no leaks

Maybe time for external cooler?

[madmike]

Yepper my bay window w/2110cc does the same after changing oil to 10w 30, next change will be 10w 40 again and I do use an xtr oil cooler
seems fine at 50 mph
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[oprn]

That would be quite normal in my past experiance with a '69 Bus. Step it up to 60 mph and the temp will rise to 250*. Heavier oil will likely make it worse. Bottom line is it's a pretty small engine to move a vehicle that size with that much wind resistance. It's working hard. That engine is pretty fresh too and the temps may come down a bit when it breaks in.

An external oil cooler is always a good idea on a type 2 in my opinion.

[rodeking]

OK, I guess it's normal, going to look at coolers. I DID have a big load in it though, a new water heater for my mother's place.

[Bruce Amacker]

Here are some facts that have already been posted before in similar threads:

1. A VW dealer posted a bulletin in 1957 stating that oil temps on the highway can reach 248* in normal use.

2. It's difficult to find written oil temps specs from the manufacturers, but IH states 250* max temp with on HD diesel engines using 15W40 dino oil.

3. Repeated trips with oil temps under 180* will lead to moisture buildup, acid buildup and degradation of the oils. Oil temps of 230* are normal on the highway and occasional highway trips are actually needed to boil off moisture which occurs naturally in the oil from combustion. Oil temps will run about 20* hotter than coolant temps in a water cooled engine and air cooled engines run hotter than water cooled do. In extreme cases (towmotors) I have seen the oil actually turn milky from constant use without achieving preferred temps from the moisture in combustion gasses bypassing the piston rings and contaminating the oil. (oil analysis showed water, not antifreeze in the oil)

4. Mobil help line stated under 265* is preferred for their oils.

5. Valvoline help line stated under 260* is preferred for their oils.

(Both help lines stated that zinc/phosphorous additives are not necessary and the zinc levels in their oils met the needs of a flat tappet cam. Many current new cars run flat tappet cams and 0W-20/5W-20/5W30 etc.)

I installed a T4 cooler (7 plate instead of 5 plate) for a drop of about 30* on the highway. (Ghia)

I installed a 1.5 qt deep sump with a wind deflector under the crossmember to get a 40* drop in temp, from 260-270* down to 220* at 65MPH on a 90* ambient day. (Bus)

I found by doing about 6 oil changes in one day that thinner oils led to higher temps. (Driving the same 40 mile highway loop on an 85* day in the Ghia with a 2180) IIRC I tried everything from 0W-20 to 20W50 and a bunch in between. I now use 0W-40 Mobil 1 if you care.

Using a full synthetic oil will likely eliminate the possibility of oil issues as they don't breakdown until 320-350* (per oil engineers I have spoken with).

I find oil temps in the city to not achieve desired levels.

I find oil temps on the highway do not stabilize until at least 20-30 miles are driven at speed.

Road course race cars regularly see 290*+ oil temps while racing.

All * temps here in F.

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[Alstrup]

[richparker]

[Mutterranch]

Tag

[rodeking]

All great info, thanks.

I did the full flow to have a filter. But it will be easy to add a cooler if I decide to.

Anyway I checked the plugs, they look great, light tan. Valves all good. I bumped the timing up to about 34 and put some 93 in it and took it for a 40 mile spin at 50 - 55 and the temp never went above 215 but ambient is only 80 today. It seems to like the add'l advance and the 93.

I looked back at my records and there is actually about 500 on it since the rebuild so I dumped the oil and filter and refilled with Rotella 15-40.

I'll see how it goes.

I like the temp gauges in Porsche's, no numbers, just a red zone where you get concerned. Actually there are numbers on them if you look closely on the side of the gauge but who looks at them? I have a VDO temp sender mounted in the Derale remote filter head. I checked it in boiling water and it is spot on.

[[email protected]]

Picture of exhaust? Some are brutally bad with causing overheating.

Also, the early Type 2s have a huge problem with not enough air intake for the engine compartment. Try driving with the deck lid propped and see if the temps drop.

Remember, 1 change at a time.
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[rodeking]

Here is the exhaust, along with my manifold heat mod.

[vwracerdave]

The 1st thing I would do is put a tennis ball under the deck lid latch and drive with the deck lid propped open a few inches.
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[Erik G]

worst exhaust possible and 34 is too advanced

ditto breaking in temp
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[Danwvw]

Yes I think it will cool better with a better exhaust system. Cheap one would be the 1 and 3/8" Headers with a quite pack muffler here is an even less expensive header 110 Horse Power street header. I would have put more camshaft duration on it and dual Weber 40 IDF Carburetors and it would not get that hot unless driven over 65 mph for long periods of time.
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[rugblaster]

Your C/R is aggressive for a bus motor. I won't go past the high 7's. The type 4 cooler mod helps (how could it not?) I assume your taking it's temp in the sump. That oil hasn't been through the cooler yet. (good to remember) adding a bigger sump don't help much, it just takes longer to get to 250. You can add a cooler to your full flow, just keep the lines short as possible. Take the temp gauge out and stomp it on the sidewalk.
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[richparker]

Maybe you can add the Awesome powder coat Venturi ring.

http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/Venturi_Ring.html
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[[email protected]]

First thing get that engine cooking muffler off of there. That one is worse than the stock muffler. Then test temps. Then test again with deck lid propped.
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[Bruce Amacker]

[oprn]

Temp drop with a higher octane fuel makes sense. It burns slower and makes less power.

[EverettB]