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wayne1230cars Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2684 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Just referring to the Bentley manual where it talks about safety wiring the bolts in the front backing plate. Mine are not and the bolts are not drilled to accept the wire. I assume that they have been replaced. The bolts are tight (torque spec is 29-33 ft/lbs).
Should I be concerned or try to find drilled bolts?
_________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Remove, clean.. Use Red Loctite... torque them.. call it a day..
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 6985 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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After over two decades in aircraft maintenance, even their "correct" diagram makes my eye twitch.
Careful what grade of thread locker you use if you plan on possibly taking things apart again in the future. The high strength stuff often requires heating things up with a torch to get the thread locker to loosen. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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I have never seen them wired, ever. dozens of Bugs I have owned or worked on never had the wires, nor drilled bolt heads. I dont use lock tite there either, ever in over 40 years of doing repairs there. Never had a loose bolt issue there either.
Red Locktite can be a pain to remove. Once made the mistake using it on a stud on an aluminum case. even a torch didnt help as the aluminum sucked the heat away too much, and nearby stuff was in danger of melting. had to drill that stud out, then use a pick to get the spring shape like bits of thread broken out from the locktite. That was the high strength red stuff. If you do decide on locktite there, use the removable stuff, maybe the blue stuff? but in reality, you do not need it, nor safety wire, unless maybe you are doing racing and experience some crazy bad vibrations.
The safety wire should be used on the carb and its pump, see link below on safety wire and engine fires....
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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wayne1230cars Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2684 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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This pic was posted in another thread about brake hardware differences 58-64. I know my ‘70 does not have the drilled bolts nor is it mentioned in the later Bentley manuals. Couldn’t find anything in the “Refinements “ reference. I looked up the bolt in the ‘1960 parts manual and it showed them as being 10mm x 1.5 x 18mm. No pic so you couldn’t tell if it was drilled or not. The 6 undrilled bolts in mine were exactly that size and were marked Kamax. Could have been replaced I suppose.
They must have stopped using that system at some point. My ‘60 is a February 23, 1960 production date.
_________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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My 1200 cc Bug manuals do not show the safety wire on front backing plate bolts.
My 1957 manual, by Scientific Magazines, Australia VW ltd. does show a drawing of the safety wire set up. But it does Not mention safety wire in the text, even though the removal and install of backing plate is written in detail, right down to the torque value.
Bug On! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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wayne1230cars Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2684 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Just went through the owners manuals in the Samba technical section. I realize that the illustrations are not always 100% accurate and they reused older pics. But 1951 - 1960 manuals all show diagrams with the safety wire. Starting with the 1961 manual, as pictured here, the safety wire is no longer there.
_________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 874 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Progressive Refinements says that the securing wire was no longer used beginning the 29th Jan 1960. The bolt heads no longer had holes drilled through them, and they were slightly thinner. A suitable hole could be drilled through an otherwise identical KAMAX bolt if needed for a resto. _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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wayne1230cars Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2684 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Zwitterkafer wrote: |
Progressive Refinements says that the securing wire was no longer used beginning the 29th Jan 1960. The bolt heads no longer had holes drilled through them, and they were slightly thinner. A suitable hole could be drilled through an otherwise identical KAMAX bolt if needed for a resto. |
Thanks. Mystery solved.
And think of the cost saving of that wire per car plus one less step in the assembly process. Seems trivial but I suppose every little bit counts. _________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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Zwitterkafer wrote: |
Progressive Refinements says that the securing wire was no longer used beginning the 29th Jan 1960. The bolt heads no longer had holes drilled through them, and they were slightly thinner. A suitable hole could be drilled through an otherwise identical KAMAX bolt if needed for a resto. |
If you drill a hole in the bolt head, make sure it is not the thinner head stock bolt that you drill. The original VW drilled bolt had a thicker, i.e. "taller" head. The extra material on the
thicker head allows for the drilled hole to be moved farther away from the root of the head. Drilling to close to the root of the head of as you would have to do on a thin head bolt, like the stock VW non drilled bolts, will weaken the bolt then the head could break off easier.
Bug On! and Don't Lose Your Head! _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 874 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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^^ Yes, absolutely correct.
I drilled such a hole once through a single thick head KAMAX bolt, using an original correct bolt as a guide. The end result was indistinguishable from factory, but it took a long time for that little drill bit to go through! _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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wayne1230cars Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2684 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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One other piece of trivia. This pic of the KAMAX drilled safety wired bolts have an 8 G marking. The non-drilled KAMAX bolts on my ‘60 have a 10 G marking. This refers to strength/grade of bolt right? If so, that would suggest that they went with a higher strength bolt when the VW engineers decided that safety wiring was no longer necessary.Also they bumped up the tightening torque to 36 ft/lbs from 29-33 ft/lbs. [img][/img] _________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
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rickcsvdubs Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2004 Posts: 227
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: Re: safety wiring front backing plate bolts 1960 bug |
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I have a 62 that had the safety wire still installed when I removed the drum. I found this post searching for the necessity of the wire. I have the bolts (with holes for wire) installed with lock washers and no safety wire. Just getting the holes in the bolts lined up to run the wire was a nightmare plus the wire kinks and won’t pull through easily.
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