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Not cranking after turning the key
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

So my progress today was I got the fuel pump to shut off with the key, don't ask me how? And it's starting pretty easily but as you can see in this video (linked below) it's idling kind of rough and backfiring when I give it a little gas, and I'm sure I have it wired right 1 4 3 2 with the #1 at TDC timed 7.5 degrees BTDC with the rotor pointing at the notch the on the distributor that's facing at 7 o clock. And the only other reason I could think of why it's backfire is I'm still off on my timing or the fuel air mixture is too rich which I can't seem to figure out?

Oh, and I cleaned up the plugs that were black, like sooty, probably from the needle valve overflowing I fixed and the smoke in the video is just from my cigar.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RriCVcFWuAA
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

So I figured out why it was idling so rough and backfiring which was one of the manifold boots cracked open creating a huge vacuum leak which I didn't think about as I just changed those with new ones about 2 weeks ago that had must have been sitting on the shelf too long or made really poorly, which I temporarily put one of the old ones back on which definitely helped.....until the fuel pump stops pumping and hopefully just ran out of gas, which is tomorrow's project so I can hopefully find tune the carb.
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richard123vmt
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

When parts are replaced that is a chance for an error. I would check the distributor with a dvm. But before that, you haven't said that you actually checked for spark. Do that. Second, when you got the thing cranking you don't say how fast. It could easily be that between flooding and untuned state that it needs a fast spin.
But I wouldn't get upset. There are always these bugs.
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

So now that put more fuel in the tank and fix the broken exhaust manifold boot I found it's idling pretty but as soon as I let it warm up to adjust the carburetor and give it a little throttle it's backfiring and even shot some flames out the carb which is not good. And I've checked Every Which Way from Sunday for any more vacuum leaks but can't seem to find any. Hmm?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

I would time it at 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpm, hoses off and plugged. This eliminates most of the problems with correctly timing an aged distributor. Do verify that the timing advances with rpm.
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Yeah that's what I thought but how do I time it at 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpm if I can't throttle up the engine without it backfiring? And the way I have it now is 7 1/2 degrees btdc static timed. And should I be running a vacuum advance distributor with this weber 32/36 DFAV carburetor? Could that be my problem?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

CheapBusForSale wrote:
Yeah that's what I thought but how do I time it at 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpm if I can't throttle up the engine without it backfiring? And the way I have it now is 7 1/2 degrees btdc static timed. And should I be running a vacuum advance distributor with this weber 32/36 DFAV carburetor? Could that be my problem?


Get it running and turn the distributor one direction or the other and see if it will keep running that way.
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Thanks Wildthings, after you wrote that I should time the engine at 3500 RPMs I went back outside and tried advancing the distributor to 10 degrees BTDC which is when I had noticed small grooves in the distributor cam lobe like the points were grinding into it even though I put a dab of grease on the points when I changed them, which Im not sure how that happened, but I swooped out the distributor with another one and WOW that really helped!, which as you can see in the vid below is running A LOT better even though as you can see at about the 35th second of the vid Its still getting some gas backfiring out of the carb which might just need some more adjusting of the distributor or carb, but what do you think? Thanks again!
https://youtu.be/v4YoKcPOcCg
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

CheapBusForSale wrote:
Thanks Wildthings, after you wrote that I should time the engine at 3500 RPMs I went back outside and tried advancing the distributor to 10 degrees BTDC which is when I had noticed small grooves in the distributor cam lobe like the points were grinding into it even though I put a dab of grease on the points when I changed them, which Im not sure how that happened, but I swooped out the distributor with another one and WOW that really helped!, which as you can see in the vid below is running A LOT better even though as you can see at about the 35th second of the vid Its still getting some gas backfiring out of the carb which might just need some more adjusting of the distributor or carb, but what do you think? Thanks again!
https://youtu.be/v4YoKcPOcCg


If you have your timing set at 28° BTDC @ 3500+ rpms then your carb is a bit lean. Adding FI cleaner to your tank might clear the jets so is a good first step. You can try holding the choke plate a bit closed and see if that helps things. Alternately, if choke is already not opening very far, then hold the plate open and see what happens.
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CheapBusForSale
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

So you were right again wildthing as it was running a little lean which I had adjusted and seem to have running pretty good even though I need to find a friend with a timing light as mine is kaput, and now it's on to the next repair I notice today which is the the bus won't stay running with the battery cable removed which could be a bad alternator, voltage regulator or perhaps I have the starter wired wrong which I don't know as I haven't really checked it out yet except for looking at the starter and taking a picture of the wiring.
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Abscate
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Quote:
and now it's on to the next repair I notice today which is the the bus won't stay running with the battery cable removed


Well, now you have a bad alternator.

This is bad practice.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Did you rev it up to make sure the alternator was excited before removing the cable? Putting a volt meter on the system is preferable to removing a cable from the battery.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Yeah I revved engine up several times while working on it and I hooked up a meter to it while it was running and not running and get a reading of 12.6 volts either way. And I'm starting to wonder If the alternator had lost its magnetism from sitting for a couple of years, which had happened with my 67 bus with a generator I repolarized and wondering if you could do that with an alternator?
Oh, and I also removed the ground strap on the tranny and cleaned it up with no improvement.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

You don’t polarize an alternator like you do a generator, and you don’t want to run an alternator unconnected to the battery , either.

Slow down before you cost your self a lot of money get the MUIR book and dive in,
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

So it's been a couple weeks since I worked on the bus due to some really cold weather we've been getting here and rain but the last time I was playing with it and trying to figure out why it wasn't charging a friend of mine was going to come over to look at it but unfortunately it wouldn't start again due to the carburetor overflowing with fuel, again, which I had already rebuilt and change the needle valve on and had the float adjusted to the exact specifications, so after getting fed up messing with that carburetor, which I found out is not the right one for this bus anyhows, I decided on installing a set of Weber dual carbs I have I'm kind of struggling with now as I had bought a new set of manifold gaskets for it and after trying to put on the manifold I discovered the studs we're too short due to the thickness of the new manifold and gaskets, so now I changed out all the studs except this one I seem to be having a problem getting the new one threat into which feels like it wants to start threading in but won't which I can't figure out why or if I should try running a tap into it slightly just to clean up the threads. But what do you think? Thanks again!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

CheapBusForSale wrote:

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That looks like the same intake manifold gasket that I have on my 78 with FI. Are they a bakelite material?

I think you need a different, thinner, gasket for the carb version?

Check out this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671071
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Carbureted engines just use a thin metal gasket and thus shorter studs than the FI engines do. If you are in a really hot part of the country and mainly drive in the summer, you may prefer the thicker fuel injection gaskets.

If your holes just aren't lining up take a found file or a Dremel with a narrow grinding bit and enlarge the hole as needed.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Yeah it does get pretty hot where I am for a good part of the year and when I ordered this gaskets by year make and engine size it said it was the right one not knowing that there was a difference between fuel injection gaskets and regular carburetor gaskets. So will these be okay? .
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

CheapBusForSale wrote:
Yeah it does get pretty hot where I am for a good part of the year and when I ordered this gaskets by year make and engine size it said it was the right one not knowing that there was a difference between fuel injection gaskets and regular carburetor gaskets. So will these be okay? .
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The thin metal gasket allow heat up into the manifolds to help atomized the gas. Whether the FI "insulator" gaskets will work for your driving conditions is a seat of the pants thing. I am sure they would be fine in the summer, but might cause poor running during warmup.

Since you have them, give them a try and get back to us.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Not cranking after turning the key Reply with quote

Do you know where to get those thin metal gaskets? As I've been searching the web but mostly just come up with the ones I bought and ones for a regular 1600 dual-port engines. Thanks
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