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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: Interesting wheel alignment alternative |
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So...a lot of people with older cars...especially VW's...have a fight these days to find not only shops that CAN align their cars...but shops that WILL align their cars.
I was shopping for struts for my Mk6 Golf today on the ECS tuning website...and saw this tool set:
Quick trick alignment tool system:
This one is the cheaper set at $299
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-quick-trick-parts/quick-trick-4th-gen-alignment-system/416412~qt/
This one is the more expensive set at $385
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-quick-trick-parts/quick-trick-4th-gen-slider-alignment-system/416450~qt/
The difference in the two is that the more expensive one comes with two digital gauges and slotted bars.
You set camber, castor and Toe-in with these tool kits. For sure it will work on a 411/412 as it works on anything with struts. Really...it should work on anything it can fit to from looking at it.
Scroll down on either page and download the instruction sheet.
http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3e01bf511d4da33...ctions.pdf
What I do not know is if or how it may address rear to front thrust. It may be in teh instructions and I just have not seen it yet.
With the average alignment where I live costing about $85 at a decent shop...when you can find one that will do it.....one of these tool sets could pay for itself in maybe three alignment sessions.
It notes that it is accurate to 0.1 degree. Thats not bad at all.
Your thoughts? Ray |
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Danno5
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2016
Posts: 63
Location: Leavenworth, KS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Interesting wheel alignment alternative |
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I'm intrigued. I just replaced an outer tie-rod end on our Rabbit and paid 90 for an alignment. Would have loved to do my own!
The 412 hasn't moved enough to warrant replacing the 20 year old rubber on it now, but I am sure I will get clueless looks from the tire places just like the parts places. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Interesting wheel alignment alternative |
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| Danno5 wrote: |
I'm intrigued. I just replaced an outer tie-rod end on our Rabbit and paid 90 for an alignment. Would have loved to do my own!
The 412 hasn't moved enough to warrant replacing the 20 year old rubber on it now, but I am sure I will get clueless looks from the tire places just like the parts places. |
The 411 and 412....I had shops refuse to align them 20 years ago. All they would do is set toe in.
Their reasoning is sound in their mind. The problem is that from the factory the 411 and 412 had only one VISIBLE adjustment. The toe in using the tie rods.
If you pull out your book and show them where the LIMITED castor adjustment is...they will say..."no way. We will not unbolt, move or adjust the subframe on any strut vehicle".
This was back in the day. A guy at NTB noted that they have seen far too many 1970's and 80's cars that were wrecked and then stretched on frame machines. Unbolting the subframe has caused on these vehicles either snapped bolts or cannot get the subframe straight.
The second part he went on...is that the 411 and 412...an a lot of other period strut vehicles do not have camber adjustment. Even if they have no issue with moving your subframe....if they cannot adjust castor as well....they wont touch it because they cannot warrant it.
So.....the subframe on the 411 and 412....is bolted to captive bolts in slots in the body. The two slots on either side of the T shaped subframe on the forward end...go side to side. The one in the center in the rear goes fore and aft.
This allows the subframe to pivot side to side to exactly spit the castor from side to side...but NOT to add any extra castor (which it sorely needs).
BUT....there are balljoints for the 411 and 412...that have an eccentric ball stud that add just a little bit of castor in. As rare as the ball joints are...good luck in finding those.
The part # is 411 412 165 E
The regular ball joint part # is 411 412 165 C
That being said....its crazy that the rear bolt on the sub frame is on a fore and aft slot. What it means is that you can slightly slot the forward bolt holes....fore and aft....and make the whole subframe easily adjustable to add castor.
And...you can also with about 2 hours work...slot the bolt holes where the control arm bolts go....and add eccentric bolts you can buy on line. If you do not have a mig welder...take it down to any shop with a little 7mm by 13mm x 1/8" square of metal and have it tack welded on for a stop to drive the eccentric against.
Many years ago in some book somewhere....and also in a long gone parts list at the dealer...I found that at one time in the 1970s...the dealer and some repair shops could and would install camber adjusting eccentrics on both super beetle and 411/412. They can do it without really removing anything.
They unbolt the control arm from the subframe...pull it down and swing it out of the way...mark the bolt holes and oval them out with a die grinder and file its smooth. New bolts and a tack weld on each side and you are now adjustable.
So in an afternoon you can have full adjustments for the front end. Bring in pictures and say..."look...8 hours ago this entire front end was on the work bench. All parts are brand new...all adjustments and adjusters are brand new...and I do not want an alignment warranty"....and they MAY align it for you.
The rear of the 412 has toe in eccentric adjuster from the factory. I have finally found an easy mod to allow adjusting camber as well I may have in mine by the early fall.
But this tool kit looks good. I need to do some review searches especially over on the Vortex and some of the BMW forums and see if it really works as well as it looks and if it can handle rear thrust.
Ray |
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