Help finding an oil leak?

[jon w]

1980 manual aircooled westfalia.
The backstory... not a mechanic, but have been tackling leaks, and working on my van (daily driver) for the last 10 years.

Last year the oil cooler seals were leaking bad. Pulled the shroud with the engine in and fixed it. Later developed a leak that got really bad from between the engine and bell housing. 2 weeks ago I built up the courage and dropped the tranny and replaced the main seal and o-ring... fixed!
Still had a drip from the right rear, but it was nothing compared to the puddle from the main seal, so I was happy.

Decided to drive from Vancouver to San Diego. When I got to Portland I realized the leak from the right (passenger side) was a lot worse than expected. Had lost close to a quart of oil Changed the pushrod tube seals and valve cover gasket in a parking lot in Portland and continued on. Still leaking.

Here is what I know, and have checked: Definitely not a gravity leak. Definitely on the right side of the engine. Oil is pooling on the tins above push rods, and down the right side of the fan shroud. Mist/spray on back hatch. Not the push rod tube seals or valve covers. Not the oil pressure sender. Breather tower / dipstick mounting point are both moist, but not crazy wet. Distributor seems to leak a bit, but not bad. Pulled the fan, the seal back there looks dirty but dry, same with the oil pump area. Breather hose was sorta collapsed, but I replaced it before the trip. Don't really understand how the breather tower works, but I can blow through it both ways. Not blowing any noticeable smoke, and the van felt great throughout the trip. When I start the engine first thing in the morning, there is slight dirty mist/spray on the ground from the tail pipe. Plugs look good and aren't oily. Looking in the spark plug access holes in the tin, the head is dry but the cylinders are dirty/oily.

Any other possibilities or ways to look under the tins without removing the engine?

Just bought a camera probe tool… been fun to look down my throat, but hard to make stuff out in the van, so it hasn’t really helped find the leak.

Around town daily driving I'm not losing much... but on the full days of freeway driving I was going through at least a quart a day.

Did a compression test (115 / 150 / 125 / 130).
Put some oil in #1 and the 115 jumped to 120… but overall these numbers don’t seem to set off any alarms regarding the oil leak?

Any other ideas or possibilities?

Figuring I will probably have to pull the engine (which I have never done), and that it may be something like case bolts? Head needing re-torque? Is there gaskets between the head and cylinders? If I try to re-torque, do I just do it, or should I pull things apart to seal or something? I did check the 4 head bolts you can see when I changed the push rod seals... did not re-torque, just checked that they were torqued and not loose. My worry is that because this is obviously a pressure leak, I may not be able to figure it out with the engine dropped and not running?

I'm thinking about trying one of those dye-uv kits, but also don't know if it will tell me anything since the leak seems to be out of view.

Any thoughts would be totally appreciated

This first photo is from 20 minutes of driving after replacing the push rod seals in Portland.

These next are from today, after driving to San Diego and back to Vancouver.

[Paulbeard]

Don't know if this will work with an aircooled, given the shroud, but someone suggested I dust the area with powder (talc, cornstarch) after cleaning, to see if the leak's trail presents itself. I'm working that angle now.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs

[timvw7476]

Those came with head gaskets but with 115 psi cranking they are ok.
There are thin cylinder base shims between cylinder & case.
Those are not worth looking at till rebuild time.

[Jd56]

I am having a very similar situation with my 80 Ircools tintop. After taking it on. 4000 mile road trip, it begin pissing oil. I finished the trip, paid someone to do the pushrod tubes (60 bucks, worth not having deal with it), it is still leaving a decent sized puddle on passenger side. Mine seems mostly spraying onto the heat exchanger that is right there near the valve cover, from what I can see it is not the valve cover or the tubes.

[jon w]

[jon w]

[Jd56]

I haven’t had time to really work on it and figure out issues. I also developed an idle issue which makes it hard to figure out a where it’s leaking since I need to figure that out to.

[jon w]

[Phaedrus]

Honestly, with those compression numbers, you need an engine rebuild, at least top end. You want no more than a 15psi difference between adjacent cylinders. Your 1&2 readings indicate late-term valve train wear. I would do a top end rebuild if I were you and take a peek at the crank and cam while it's torn down, making sure your rod bearings are still okay and that your cam lobes aren't too worn out. It may be time for a full rebuild depending on what you find. Resealing will be part of the rebuild. I wouldn't do a long road trip with those readings. When the valve seats finally let go it will be sudden and much more costly to fix than if you take care of it before it grenades.

If it were at my shop I would tell you not to bother trying to chase that leak down and to save for a rebuild instead, take care of all the resealing then.

My money's on oil cooler seals, fwiw.
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1986 WBX (Tin Top Camper)

[jlrftype7]

[DanHoug]

[Jd56]

Not hijack this topic to something else. Mine seems like the idle just does t catch. The slightest weight on gas pedal will catch the idle and it seems ok. The guy who replaced the pushrod tubes said it looks like exhaust valve 3 is sucking in. Which could cause some idle issue I think. I am also thinking it’s the idle switch on the throttle body, I read it’s supposed to click at open throttle and then again on neutral, mine doesn’t seem click back to return, or am I wrong on that. A lot of what I read seems to be directed towards the 85-91.

[jon w]

[Jd56]

Does yours spray onto the heat exchanger under the valve cover and onto the passenger tire ? That’s where mine is. Seems around push rob but those are changed and seem dry. Could the “rear main” be causing that.

[jon w]

[jon w]

[jlrftype7]

[jon w]

Still hunting for this leak... while simultaneously reading up on re-builds. Spent the last few days reading through every air cooled oil leak thread on here.

Going to do another major cleaning tomorrow with the information I have learned, and my new suspicions.

From what I can see with the engine in, looks like it is dripping from where the head meets the cylinder.

From what I have read, that could mean loose head bolts? I did check the 4 behind the rockers when I did the push rod seals. Didn't loosen and re-torque, just checked that they weren't loose with the torque wrench. If I did have a loose head, wouldn't my compression numbers be lower than what I got? Danger in a simple re-torque? Would a leaking head account for the wonky compressions numbers on that side #1-115 #2-150?

Also weird because I would think I would be blowing smoke if I was leaking oil at the head? My plugs look nice and tan, and it feels like it is running great.

Other thing I read it could be is lack of sealant behind those head bolts behind the rockers leaking out of the studs? Would they leak badly at high RPM's?

Other than that, maybe a case bolt, or worse... cracked jug/head/case. Any other suspect bolts that could leak? Read about the thermostat housing/pulley bolts leaking, but that may have been with bug engines.

I have never pulled an engine, but am reading up, preparing and sourcing things like a floor jack (and hopefully a friend). I just want to make sure that I am prepared, and investigate/learn as much as I can while the engine is still in since this leak is only leaking while hot and running. The last thing I want to do is pull the engine and end up scratching my head because I can't pin point it, or pin point it and not know what to do about it.

Any insight? Also wondering if I can pull back any of the upper tins enough to peek inside with the engine in.

[DanHoug]

get some UV oil tracer dye at NAPA and pick up a UV flashlight. works great to find oil leaks and you don't need to clean the old oil off. just be sure to be ready to look for the tracer immediately after startup. if you wait too long, the dye is everywhere and you're back to square one.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[jberger]