1904cc maybe bigger?

[W1K1]

Existing motor is a 1904cc , built for my 65 squareback. Originally we went 1904cc to keep the heat exchangers and run the stock solex carbs, that didn’t last, I ended with 36 dells, and the vintage speed sport muffler.

I’m thinking of bumping the cylinders up to thick wall 92’s and new heads.

It’s a daily driver , 5000rpm is fine, more hp , more fun
I have a pair of 45 dells as well that need a rebuild if we are exceeding the capacity of the 36’s

What I have now:
Web Cam Type 1 Camshaft, Grind 163, 105 lobe center
5.5" CB unitech rods, and 90.5mm B pistons
AS41 block, full flowed, decked, bored for 90.5.
DRD L3 heads stock valves cnc ported with 53cc chambers, single high rev springs, 90.5 bore
CB Performance Super Stock Rockers, 1.1:1 Ratio (Rocker Arms)
DPR DELUXE Type 1 Stroker Crankshaft, Type 1 Rod Journals 74mm
Chome Vanadium 12V 200mm Lightened Flywheel - 13lb Flywheel
Schadek 26mm Oil Pump
36 DRLA Dellortos
Vintage speed type 3 sports 1.1/2” good for 125hp
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[jeffrey8164]

If you’re asking me, I’d go with 94’s for a 2054.
I doubt anyone would notice 54 more cc’s.
I would add more stroke too, but that’s just me.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[W1K1]

94's are not a good choice for a T3 though, thats why i was leaning towards the 92 thick walls, and the L3 heads need to be freshened up, so I was wondering if there was an upgrade, without spoiling the wide powerband the web 163 is giving right now.

I would still like to be able to use the VS muffler with 1.1/2" pipes, since exhaust choices on T3's is limited too. I do have a mocal fan/cooler already hooked up to the current engine as well.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[W1K1]

Looks like John at aircooled.net has basically what I am looking at with the 2054cc engine parts list:

2054cc Engine Parts List, for Convertible Beetles and Ghias, THINGs, Busses, and Type 3s!
This one has mild heads, a stroker crank, and super reliable THICK WALL 92mm P&Cs, which will hold up under the extra heat from Convertibles, THINGs, Busses, and Type 3s!

At the minimum you will need dual 1bbl carbs, but optimally it will have dual 2bbls (Dual 36 or 40mm DRLAs, or 40 IDFs). Also, know that the exhaust system you are going to use will determine the best heads to select! For example, if you are going to run 1 3/8″ exhaust, you are limited to stock dual port heads, or L3 dual port heads. If you bump up to heads like our Panchitos Cylinder Heads, you can run 1 1/2 or 1 5/8″ exhaust.

With this engine you don’t want to go crazy with the camshaft, since the vehicle is heavier.
76mm 4340 chromoly crankshaft w/VW journals
5.500″ H-beam connecting rods or 5.500″ I-beam connecting rods
Web Cam 163 Camshaft (If you have dual 2bbl carbs)
L3 Cylinder Heads if you are restricted to 1 3/8″ exhaust OR Panchitos Cylinder Heads if you can go 1 1/2 or 1 5/8″ exhaust
3.5qt Deep Sump
92x82mm piston and cylinder kit be sure to bore the case and heads to the 94mm size, since these P&Cs use the super thick cylinder at the top and bottom!
1.1:1 Ratio rocker arms or 1.25 Rocker Arms
Dual 40 Weber IDF carb kit
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Bryan67]

I had a 69 Fastback with a 69X94 motor, and it ran beautifully. No overheating issues at all. As well as a 68 Camper Bus with a 82X94 motor that ran just fine as well.
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If you`re going to do something, do it right.

[Alstrup]

It depends very much on which " generation" L3's you have. The earlier versions especially the ones that was sold directly from drd wohnt support anything larger than 1776 in a decent manner. The later from John which are based on the Aa 500 cast are much better. I would consider 2 l displacement absolutely max for even those heads

[W1K1]

I bought them from DRD back in 2011, everything else came from John

So if we went with the 92 thick walls and the panchito heads+ 1:1.25 rocker arms?
would I stay with the 36 dells, or rebuild the 45 dells?
also like to stay with the vintage speed 1.1/2 Type 3 exhaust

L3 heads

_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Alstrup]

Ok. Those are the later version from him. They need a proper valve and seat job along with some better guides. Then they can work well. With some good detailing of the ports they can support up to about 130 hp
Especially if you chose the Panchito's you should rebuild the 45's and install 34 mm venturies in them

[ekacpuc]

I built a 2007 with L3s (the ones on the 043 casting) and used a web 163 and it was a nice all around motor.


Ruined it when I went with big valve 042s. WAY less snappy. Reved higher but was pretty lame down low. The 042s even had more compression with the 54cc chambers. FWIW

[W1K1]

so I guess I have a plan then:

Web Cam 163, 105 lobe center
5.5" CB unitech rods,
92mm thick wall pistons/cylinders, cut for 90.5 case
AS41 block, full flowed, decked, bored for 90.5.
panchito heads bored for 94mm, 56cc
CB Performance Super Stock Rockers, 1.25:1 Ratio (Rocker Arms)
DPR DELUXE Type 1 Stroker Crankshaft, Type 1 Rod Journals 74mm
Chome Vanadium 12V 200mm Lightened Flywheel - 13lb Flywheel
Schadek 26mm Oil Pump
45 DRLA Dellortos
Vintage speed type 3 sports 1.1/2” good for 125hp

the 56cc combustion chamber puts us in the right range with .040" (8.8 ) or .050" (8.6) for the web 163
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Brian_e]

If you are buying a crank, the 76mm, 5.5 rods, and B height pistons is a pretty easy combo. The case doesn't need much more clearance work, and the deck height is usually right close to a perfect .045". Lighter pistons also.

A 92x76 2021cc will make better use of the bigger heads and carbs also. The 163, 1.25 and Panchito's will work really good with the larger displacement.

When you order the Panchito's make sure you get the CNC chamber option.

Brian
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www.type-emotorsports.com

[W1K1]

I have the 74 crank from my 1904cc

the only thing I need to order is the panchito heads and 92 P&Cs. and have my 45 dells rebuilt

otherwise we are on that slippery slope of ... well if I replace the crank it's gonna be an 82...........
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Bryan67]

And maybe get the ported manifolds to match the heads.
_________________
If you`re going to do something, do it right.

[sled]

[W1K1]

[W1K1]

I guess the other way to look at it is a 90.5 x 82 2110cc, which we have done before a couple times for beetles

Web Cam 163, 105 lobe center
5.5" CB unitech rods,
90.5 mm pistons/cylinders
AS41 block, full flowed, decked, bored for 90.5.
panchito heads bored for 90.5mm, 61cc CNC chamber
CB Performance Super Stock Rockers, 1.25:1 Ratio (Rocker Arms)
DPR DELUXE Type 1 Stroker Crankshaft, 82mm
Chome Vanadium 12V 200mm Lightened Flywheel - 13lb Flywheel
Schadek 26mm Oil Pump
45 DRLA Dellortos
Vintage speed type 3 sports 1.1/2” good for 125hp

the big question is when do you exceed the exhaust? , and is the cam still a viable cam?

or do we go back to the beginning and start from scratch.

Remembering it's a heavy type 3, daily driver, 5500rpm, lots of bottom end torque.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[Brian_e]

I think the super short curvy intake manifolds might be the limit of the whole engine. With the 2110cc, I am pretty sure you will be past the 125hp limit on the exhaust.

Your Panchito/163/1.25 combo will make awesome torque in a 2000cc+, and it will be perfect for a type 3.

Don't forget you will need new B pistons if you bump it too a 82mm crank.

I would just run turned down 94's on the crank you have now. 2054cc No case machining, no new crank, etc. Lots of people run 94's in buses and have no problems. Myself included.

Brian
_________________
www.type-emotorsports.com

[74 Thing]

Get the CNC heads and have them flycut to the cc's you want.

[sled]

[rodgersbadassbus64]

I really dig 74 x 90.5 in my bus. I have a big motor too but I like the 74 it's not nervous and fun on the road:)