Clutch question

[Cusser]

You can pull the starter and count the number of teeth on the flywheel. Obviously mark with a sharpie where you start.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[liquidrush]

OK, I have the clutch part covered. My local Napa will have everything I need today and tomorrow so now to the starter noise issue. I have had 3 starters on this thing, the one that came with it, the first one I replaced and now the autostick one and all 3 have sounded the same, definite tightness grinding sound. So while looking around at starters I'm seeing that the 6v starter, the 12v starter and the A/S starter all have 9 teeth on the drive pinion. I guess the pitch and spacing could be different but this is why I ask. I've found pics and descriptions of the 6v starter here
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/ultima-4536/c...p;pos=0#rr

And the 12v starter that looks just like the 6v starter here
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/ultima-4536/c...&pos=1

Both say that they have 9 teeth as does the A/S starter. Is the difference in the starters the drive pinion? After much reading around here it seems that the starter bushing is a special one or does the fact that I have a 1962 swing axle trans mean that the 6v bushing will go right in?

[Pruneman99]

Yes, the difference is in the size of the teeth. Think about it this way: you can have a gear the size of a quarter or a gear two feet in diameter that both have 9 teeth. So the tooth count being the same doesn't mean it will work. The 6v and 12v starter pinions are close, but not the same. That's why it will still work kinda, but grinds and destroys it self. They don't match exactly.

There are different bushings because the shaft on the 6v and 12v starters are different. Also the hole in the transmission they fit in are different also. You need the bushing that fits both sides. They make 4 different sizes to accommodate the possible combinations you might have.

Now, if you have a 200mm flywheel, and use an autostick starter, a bushing is not required because the starter is self supporting.

[liquidrush]

Any place I can find the dimensions of the bushings? I ordered a 6v starter and if I can find the specs of the bushing I'll just turn one from some bronze I have in the shop.

[Pruneman99]

Here is an image from the gallery:

Shows the different sizes. You need the top left one for a 6v trans and starter.

Sorry, I don't have the dimensions, maybe someone can measure one for you. Since it is not a conversion bushing, your local FLAPS might have it in stock. Actually, the last non-supported starter I bought came with the bushing in the box.

Edit:
Actually as I thought about it some more, there was a note that came with the starter and new bushing that said the warranty would be void if the new bushing was not installed along with the new starter.

I think it was a remanufactured starter from AutoZone. So depending on who you ordered the starter from, you'll probably get a bushing and won't have to cut one yourself.

[liquidrush]

That's what I'm hoping for, of course, but if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all. If anyone can provide an OD of that top left bushing I'd sure appreciate it. I can match the ID to the starter shaft.

[liquidrush]

Picked up my new starter this morning, came with a bushing so hopefully I'll be set. Will the solenoids interchange? I was gonna swap a 12v solenoid onto the 6v starter if they do.

[Pruneman99]

I've never heard of them being able to be swapped.. And there are many, many people that have run into this problem.

But, I have, and others have, ran 6v starters on 12v successfully for long periods of time. Just make sure your engine is in good tune and starts quickly. Don't crank on it.

There are starters made with 6v gears wound for 12v. They are not cheap or available at your local FLAPS.

[liquidrush]

My engine starts super easy, I think I could start it with a rope around the alternator pulley. We'll see tomorrow, I have everything for the clutch and for the starter. I'll just hang on to my autostick starter since I might be fitting a 12v flywheel after I bring the bug back home depending on how all of this goes. I noticed the clutch slipping last weekend on a big hill and I don't want to get stranded miles from no place so I'll replace it tomorrow and get a look at exactly what's in there so I know which way I'll need to go. I do appreciate everyone's help and input on this thread.

[Pruneman99]

You'll probably be fine running the 6v starter since your engine is a good runner.

I one thing I did when I was doing this was to use a battery with the lowest cranking amperage I could find. The parts guy thought I was nuts asking for the battery that had the LOWEST cold cranking amp rating.

IDK if it made any difference, but I never had a problem.

[MrGoodtunes]

[liquidrush]

Well it was a 180mm clutch in there and old style at that, the pressure plate had the standing spring towers on the body and one side of the disc was into the rivets. So that's all taken care of. I did put the engine back on without changing the starter bushing so I took it back off to change it. The new 6v starter is nice and quiet too. All in all it took about two hours, in a gravel driveway with a floor jack rolling on a 2x6 and nearly 20 dollars in harbor freight tools. And my cordless dewalt impact. I recall talking about how this flywheel doesn't belong on the AH engine and of course I didn't take any pics of it while I had the clutch off.