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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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pastellgreen wrote: |
sunroof wrote: |
When I compared the thickness of the original rubber to the aftermarket I knew it was going to make trouble. |
This is a point often overlooked. But this is not aftermarket vs original: VW itself changed the design of that seal in 8/1963. That change is essential:
What you get today is only the second style. It can be compressed more than the old style. All people doing a body off resto from beetles from before 8/1963 should consider it. One have to think about the thickness of the rubber blocks under the rear and front supports. Otherwise one will have trouble with the door... |
So, I figured it out! It has been spinning around in my head for the last several days. Really weird! Everything is really close, but the body is just not twisted right, has been my thinking. And thinking is all I have done!
Yesterday, around 11:00, I was finally able to put my theory to the test. Sorry for no pictures. I was so wrapped up on thinking about the issue, I left no room for thinking about taking my phone out. But I can try to explain it.
The front 2 bolt down points at the front axle receive their bolts through the trunk area, at the brake reservoir shelf. Here is a picture. This is an after I got it picture!
See how the flat washers go under the rear sheet metal cut out? Well, they were not like that a few minutes before this picture. When I tightened those down, the washer, ON BOTH OF THEM, (ODD) got stuck on top of the axle bolt protrusion edge. Tightening the bolts down, did nothing. The entire front of the car never made contact with the rubber lower pad. So, I removed the bolt and washer, saw the issue, took a pry bar and from inside the tank area, pried the body away from the axle tubes, allowing the washer to fall down around the bolt mount on the axle tube. The front of the car, slide forward about 3/8” or 9mm. That was the magic moment!
I then reinstalled the bolts, immediately noting the difference in how the body was laying. Walked around to the door and it was PERFECT!
Big relief and a lesson in using a tad more patience, even if I have been asked to stop several times! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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After that was figured out, I started back in on the door gap. Just a tiny bit too tight for my liking, still. I can almost see the door rubber tearing at each opening and closing. So, back to pulling the B pillar back a few millimeters.
First thing I figured out was that the new skin on the door was impeding the closing of the door. Sure, it would shut, but if I used a tiny bit more patience, I could see the lower hinge try to move outward, away from the body, just over the half way closed part. Found it to be the new door skin rubbing up against the heater channel. It looks to me like the skin needs to be ground back to meet the door frame seal channel. The skin is about 1/8” proud of that frame portion. So, I removed the door and then slowly ground the excess door skin (like I should have done the first time) down to meet the frame. Hind sight is a bitch!
See that shinny edge? That is where it was rubbing! But the entire door had the steel like that, so I removed all of it back to the inner seal channel edge.
WAY BETTER! Both in door action, closing and gap alignment! Door is sitting almost perfect.
And I have a shadow line at the door bottom to heater channel.
With the door operating correctly and sitting perfectly, I went back to working out the quarter panel figment. The adjacent rear panel to this door just never sat right. I have tried several times, each making it a little better, but none ever ending with happiness. I decided, enough is enough and am going to get it gapped perfectly. Figured out that it needed about an additional 1/16th of an inch of steel (the kerf plus the 1/16th equals the width of this old screwdriver I have.
I then set one tack weld, then checked the door closed.
An, perfect. Let set a few more.
Pry the panel away and set another one.
This one I had to snap apart and add a little spot to increase the gap for alignment.
Looking good!
Let’s check with the door closed. Ah, perfect!
I will pound out the door skin, to match the quarter panel. If you look beyond that future work, you can see how the reshaped door will fall in line!
Okay, so alignment is there. I may need to tap a few spots, but that is way easier than moving a panel a 6mms! Lets me weld up that gap and see what happens.
Clatter, BIG SHOUT OUT TO YOU! THANK YOU! Never would have used water during my metal work before your input several months back. Now I ALWAYS have a bucket of water and a rag around. It sounds like this, tack, tack, tack, spppppp, tack, tack, spppppp (that sppppp is the sound of hot steel getting cooled off with a wet rag)! Thanks, you have saved me many hours of panel beating. And my tennis elbow thanks you, too!
A few more, more cooling. Let’s see what it is doing.
Almost perfect!
Back out I go! I got 3 more days, before blasting! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5969 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
The front of the car, slide forward about 3/8” or 9mm. That was the magic moment!
I then reinstalled the bolts, immediately noting the difference in how the body was laying. Walked around to the door and it was PERFECT!
Big relief and a lesson in using a tad more patience, even if I have been asked to stop several times! |
So, getting that movement at the beam bolts, and then allowing them to be torqued was enough to move the A pillar that many mm. Super interesting to those of us that are also fussing with door gaps and fit problems _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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esde wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
The front of the car, slide forward about 3/8” or 9mm. That was the magic moment!
I then reinstalled the bolts, immediately noting the difference in how the body was laying. Walked around to the door and it was PERFECT!
Big relief and a lesson in using a tad more patience, even if I have been asked to stop several times! |
So, getting that movement at the beam bolts, and then allowing them to be torqued was enough to move the A pillar that many mm. Super interesting to those of us that are also fussing with door gaps and fit problems |
That was it! Knew it was simple since all my measurements were spot on! But one never knows until it works out - right!?!? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Got in another 4 hours of work, today!
Pulled the Bug out.
I was looking at the gap of the door and it looks like the semaphore pocket wall has been pushed in. So, first task is to straighten out the wall of the pocket. Can you see the bent pocket wall? Looks like someone was pushing hard! It is on the lower right hand side.
Took out a hammer and a small pry bar and straightened it out. Then checked it with the straight edge.
Then onto aligning the door to the quarter panel, again. Was checking out the door gap and it looks just a tiny bit too large now.so, I will push the pillar out past the quarter panel a 1/32”.
Checked it again, then welded up a few segments.
Ground it all down and shot some primer on it. Looking really good. Sat the running board in between the fenders, just to see!
Onto the other side! Pulled the door off and clamped a straight edge to the bottom to guide the cut off wheel.
Then cut off a sliver.
Door fits much better and does not fight me on the last few inches when closing it!
This gap looks good, too!
Stuck the running board up there to check it all out. Looks great!!
_________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Picked up a seat bottom for less than a hundred!
Then removed the cover and padding. Looks like some bailing wire is used for the stretching and spikes for retention.
The wire wraps around both back legs.
Then removed the cover and padding.
I now have almost 2 front seats for around $300! That is pretty awesome!
Some day I will sit in one of those seats and drive this Bug! Might be 70 when it happens, but happen it will! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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markendee Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 248 Location: Kyabram, Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Well done Jimbo. (on the gap work and the seats)
I paid $1200.00 for my front seats, which were in very sound condition but had to be recovered and $900.00 for the rear seat, which also has been reupholstered but in great nick.
I really didn't hold out a lot of hope of finding '54 seats and had almost conceded to later ones but a good mate found them, separately, on Facebook.
Have to have a few wins.
Enjoying the build Jim, really looking forward to seeing it after blasting.
Regards,
Mark. _________________ Member # 145244 |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:42 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
This gap looks good, too!
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You should stick 5-10 lbs of weight inside the door shell, then see how the door lines up. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 336
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Great work Jimmy. I have come to the conclusion that to truly do a complete rebuild on one of these you need to do 2 because the first one is always the one you learn on. It’s really amazing how much you can change gaps just by tightening the body bolts down. I can’t wait to see this car done. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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markendee wrote: |
Well done Jimbo. (on the gap work and the seats)
I paid $1200.00 for my front seats, which were in very sound condition but had to be recovered and $900.00 for the rear seat, which also has been reupholstered but in great nick.
I really didn't hold out a lot of hope of finding '54 seats and had almost conceded to later ones but a good mate found them, separately, on Facebook.
Have to have a few wins.
Enjoying the build Jim, really looking forward to seeing it after blasting.
Regards,
Mark. |
Thank you!
Your seats are beautiful! Want to donate them? Joking, unless you do, then I can be serious.
Glad you are enjoying it. I am hoping to make my trip to the blaster, very soon! SO CLOSE! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Bruce wrote: |
VW_Jimbo wrote: |
This gap looks good, too!
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You should stick 5-10 lbs of weight inside the door shell, then see how the door lines up. |
Will do. Will report back at the end of the day! Thanks for looking in on me!
Well, I am back to report that no change was noted! Pictures to prove that I am not blowing smoke!
Passenger door first.
I swung that back and forth several times and pulled and pushed on it as well. Super solid door!
Driver’s side was next.
I swung this one back and forth as well, but it had a spot in the swing that was odd. The gaps remained good, but that spot caught my attention. Did some investigating by wiggling the hell out of the door, and found that the top hinge area, at the rivets would flex in and out, as I lifted and press down on the door. It always swung back into a good position with good gaps, but that area needs some attention! It is on my list, “Remove and replace top hinge mounting area at driver’s door.”.
Thanks Bruce. Would have sucked ass to find that after paint! After testing, you can see the damage. The door is sagging a little bit. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Oh yeah! Wanted to show what the family got me for Christmas! Okay, really, I ordered this a few months back and it never showed up. Finally, on December 22, it was delivered. I opened the box in front of the wifey and she immediately asked, “ What’s that?” I told her it was a book that I had an eye out for that went on auction, so I bought it. She told me, “Merry Christmas! Put it back in the box. I am going to wrap it for you.” Disappointed that I could not go through it right then and there, but knowing,”happy wife equals a happy life”, I placed the book gently back into the box and handed it over to her.
On Christmas morning I was surprised to see that I got this amazing gift, from my wife!
Spent the next few hours scanning every page and just loving the book!
Glad she gave me a book, which I bought, for Christmas! I am one lucky man! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Okay…..
Yesterday was another great day! Love when stuff just works out and you get to conclude the day on a high note! TOTALLY AWESOME!
Pulled the Bug out and studied the area which needed some attention.
With the body fully bolted down and sitting oh so sweetly, it was time to get back to the hood! The curve of the entire hood is just wrong, both side to side (it is too wide) and in length (it is too short). The gap is large most of the way around the edges. At one spot, by the driver’s side headlight, it is just under 3/4” or 19mm. It should be between 6 to 8mm, 1/4” to 5/16”. Very hard to achieve, but let’s at least make things better. Hell, I would settle for 12mm at the biggest spot, but highly unlikely that I will stop there!
Anyways…..let’s document the starting gap.
Passenger side, right about 10mm to 6mm down to 4, ending up at 0 at the bottom of the nose.
Driver’s side, right about 9mm to 13mm up to 19mm mid point of the headlight area, ending up at 0 at the bottom of the nose. Damn! Wonky is the only word that comes to mind! And I added 10 pounds to the hood to get those numbers!
Adjusted the hood at the Cowling to start with. Then reviewed the gaps. That’s when I remembered welding in a stiffener at the crack I welded up a few years back. I better remove it, because I am not going to be able to reshape a chunk of 3/8” steel bar!
Off the hood comes. Stood up and the bar stock cut away, surgically.
After that, lifted up the hood and got the passenger side hinge pivot bolt in. While balancing the hood with my left hand, I scooted around the front of the car and that is when it happened. The pivot washer fell off the pivot, before I could get the hood lined up. Guess where the washer went?
Yep, the BLACK HOLE! Lucky for me, I have been down this road once, Ha ha ha!
With the washer reinstalled on the pivot point, I wiggled the hood onto it and screwed in the bolt. Then shut the hood and pressed here and there. Twisted that spot and that other one. Placed a 2x4 between the Cowling and the hood and shut it, 2x4 at the hood opening down at the apron and lots of pressure. Each time the hood would change a tiny amount. 2 hours later and I have this.
Not bad, but it can still get better. Plus the hood is now off center. So, let’s move the pivot point a tiny bit. In through the glove box to pry on the hinge point.
Got to weasel the pry bar inbetween the A pillar and the pivot point while prying against the dash, without bending the glove box opening, BLIND! Super fun but profitable!
There, that moved the hood center line over 3/16” or 4mm. Perfect. Now, back to bending and twisting! Pulled out a cargo strap, as the hood needed to come up in the center, and in on the side.
Then I tightened the strap, several times, each time with a little movement. Check it out, under tension there is a 1/2” or 13mm height gain at center line!
Afterwards the curve of the hood has changed enough that the side gaps are acceptable.
But…..the front gap is still too large. I need toget the nose to drop a tiny bit further. Let’s reshape the front apron! I caved in the front apron right under the seal channel and working the panel out from center, being sure to not create a bump between the seal channel and the return bend at the very bottom of the panel. You can see the finished panel beating. Those are my 3 separate beating marks. Each time it was less to beat. It ended up laying really, really close to perfect.
I know, Jim, I do not see a difference. Ah, but there is one, trust me!
That’s when the wife rang the Wenesday night trivia bell. Time to go play trivia and have a few pints! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3850 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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That's a yoooooggge difference, Jim, killin' it. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5969 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Nice work as always!
I also found that working the bottom of the apron made the biggest difference. And like you I went from 19-20mm down to 6-7.
Are you going to reinstall the hood stay? I tried mine out and immediately messed up some of my hood alignment, so I've decided to eliminate it all together and use a hardwood prop that catches the hood patch. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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esde wrote: |
Nice work as always!
I also found that working the bottom of the apron made the biggest difference. And like you I went from 19-20mm down to 6-7.
Are you going to reinstall the hood stay? I tried mine out and immediately messed up some of my hood alignment, so I've decided to eliminate it all together and use a hardwood prop that catches the hood patch. |
Thank you!
The plan is to use it! I am going to weld a steel rib down the prop side, again. I just need to get the steel bent right before welding it in. That makes a huge difference in how much the hood moves.
The bottom of that apron is amazing, regarding the hood! Just a few taps and one can drop 6mm off of the gap! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Busstom wrote: |
That's a yoooooggge difference, Jim, killin' it. |
Thank you! Totally agree! I bet driving down the road I will not feel as much Wind! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Last edited by VW_Jimbo on Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lardawge Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2020 Posts: 355 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Nice fit. I would recommend putting the hood latch on and confirming that everything lines up. Often times the latch will hold the hood in a different position. May need to make further modifications. Worth checking. _________________ 11/2/54 L227 Strato Silver Ragtop - Soon to be L41 Black - Build Thread
1/7/55 L275 Light Beige |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Back at it again today! 4 more hours of fun! Man, I love being off work!!!
Pulled the Bug out and dove in for another round of panel beating. Went straight to the gap at the hood again, down at the front apron. It is a hair too big, for me. So, let’s see what can be done.
See that gap? Just a little big.
I double check the fender alignment on the body first, just to be sure I was not making new problems up.
Looks great the entire way around the body to the fender joint! Just need to take care of a torn section at the bottom front.
And the wonky gap at the front apron. Plus there is a low spot adjacent to the bumper slot.
I also need to take care of the rust holes inside the bucket and at the seam, plus grind down the steel at that blinker light patch.
So, decided to pull the fender back off of the car and work on it. Started just unfolding the steel and scraping away the rust.
One of the two holes for the running board needs to be welded up.
Pounded on the front spot while the fender was still on the car. Got that front spot much closer.
With it looking better, I opted to remove it and set it up on the body dolly to work on it.
I then cleaned up the steel and clamped the broken part, closed as much as possible.
Zapped it!
Then zapped it a few more times. Ground all that down. And abra ca dabra. It is one piece once again.
Now the extra hole.
Cut some scrap steel into patches.
Then bent it, to mimic the bend.
Then up inside the hole to get marked for cutting. It is happy!
And marked.
See the scribe mark up against the black marker?
I cut the shape and it snapped into 2 parts. Oh well, more to weld. Placed both of those pieces into their spot and welded them in.
All ground down, nice and pretty!
Onto the bolt hole flange. A couple of rusted out spots.
Clamps the copper bar behind the hole and zapped it.
I then cut the other rusty spot a tad bit bigger. It was super thin steel. I cut a patch and melted it into space, followed up with more grinding!
Primed all of those repairs up and hung the fender back into place. Looks great. Now onto the headlight bucket!
Oh wait, that was the beer bell! Tomorrow is a new day. Until then! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9767 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Jimmy V’s 54 Oval Project |
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Making great progress this week.
I'm diggin the fast paced updates.
Maybe I missed it. Did you get the hood gap corrected?
Keep at it. It'll get done. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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