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mrshrimp Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2013 Posts: 373 Location: Portland
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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Had my Syncro conversion done last year: 2007 Subaru 2.5 drive by wire w/about 50k on it, stainless headers, high torque starter, transmission cooler, AC hooked up (replaced some parts as well), scan gauge, factory Subaru cruise control plumbed in (with accel/decel toggle features), modified syncro driveline protection (similar to stock set up), front differential fluid swap, a few other random small things as well: ~$21k. |
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nohabusguy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 63 Location: New York
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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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I had a Subaru 2.5 (2010 engine, drive by wire) swapped in last year, and have about 6k miles on it so far with not one problem. To the OP question, my invoice listed 84 hours of labor at shop rate of $85/hour. At the end of the day, my mechanic said the job should have only taken 60 hours but there were a bunch of things that didn’t work right with the small car conversion package that he had to work out, including the wiring harness, that resulted in the extra 24 hours of work. My mechanic gave me a credit for 16 hours off the final bill because the job got delayed a couple of months and he felt bad that he had “sold” me on using the small car conversion package because he had used them before. My mechanic sourced the engine from a CT wrecker specializing in Subarus that did the head gaskets and valve guides before we took delivery of it (engine cost $2,400). All of the parts for the conversion came from Small car, except we had to fabricate as special cold air intake from an Apollo K&N kit. The work included getting the AC hooked up (my Westy already had factory AC installed, so it was just a matter of installing/fabricating new AC lines, etc. off of the new engine). _________________ 1967 Double Cab
1967 21 Window Deluxe Bus
1989 Westy Syncro (Subaru 2.5, dreaming of installing a NAHT)
1990 Doka Syncro (WBX 2.1) |
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deepseeman Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004 Posts: 435 Location: san diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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littlebuggie wrote: |
We do them for $7k. No ac. No smog. We do them all day everyday.
Parts cost varies for a guy doing “one” all depends on where the motor comes from. I know my first swap cost a lot more than my last swap because of my parts hunting has improved. And knowing what works and doesn’t work.
Well worth whatever you pay! |
location? _________________ in the barn:
61' Double Cab-restored driver
91 SYNCRO |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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littlebuggie wrote: |
We do them for $7k. |
lol
i can't imagine what a 7k swap looks like
edit:
never mind. a bunch of harness coiled up and zip tied to the side and 80's GM dash HVAC hose for the fresh air inlet, and pet store PVC for a coolant line
_________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Shots fired. |
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Schnippzle Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2021 Posts: 288 Location: Swede in London, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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I think the FB25D conversion we've had done started at about £7.5k and then goes up with additional labour and fabrication. We also opted to have a completely new cooling system put in so cost went up. _________________ 1988 Caravelle - FB25B - Syncro converted
2016 MB E63 AMG S - The daily driver
2019 Harley Davidson FXFBS Fat Bob - The leisure |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i can't imagine what a 7k swap looks like |
That's hilarious. You're shitting on an engine bay that looks way better than the Vanagon's engine bay from the factory. And it also looks better than 90% of the swaps I've seen. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Really, I tend to agree with Skills _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16879 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
That's hilarious. You're shitting on an engine bay that looks way better than the Vanagon's engine bay from the factory. And it also looks better than 90% of the swaps I've seen. |
i could accept the way it looks if it was a DIY project. to pay someone 7k for that, no fucking way.
adding up the parts in my head i don't see how 7k would cover the engine and install bits unless you work for free and use a junkyard engine and don't do a thing to it. let's not forget the "may as wells" and "since you're there" repairs.
Bleyseng wrote: |
Really, I tend to agree with Skills |
thank you. it doesn't happen often around here _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16504 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
4Gears4Tires wrote: |
That's hilarious. You're shitting on an engine bay that looks way better than the Vanagon's engine bay from the factory. And it also looks better than 90% of the swaps I've seen. |
i could accept the way it looks if it was a DIY project. to pay someone 7k for that, no fucking way.
adding up the parts in my head i don't see how 7k would cover the engine and install bits unless you work for free and use a junkyard engine and don't do a thing to it. let's not forget the "may as wells" and "since you're there" repairs.
Bleyseng wrote: |
Really, I tend to agree with Skills |
thank you. it doesn't happen often around here |
I often agree with Skills too. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7472 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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deepseeman wrote: |
littlebuggie wrote: |
We do them for $7k. No ac. No smog. We do them all day everyday.
Parts cost varies for a guy doing “one” all depends on where the motor comes from. I know my first swap cost a lot more than my last swap because of my parts hunting has improved. And knowing what works and doesn’t work.
Well worth whatever you pay! |
location? |
Last visited 8/9/21. Let's hope all is well in these days. (I can't say I know enough to agree with skills but I generally listen closely to his advice).
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2659
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Vanaru installed at precision motor car in Portland is $15k to start.
More for any additional fix ups that need to happen for the vehicle to support it i.e. rad, tranny wireing repair etc.
That's a base model starting number, no ac, no power steering, no Cruze control.
$2500 to get on the schedule and purchase the kit and that's rolled into the total $15k . |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
thank you. it doesn't happen often around here |
The only thing I think is janky is the intake tube. Having a clear tube for coolant visibility is fine by me, even preferable. I remember the big discussion that caused for the Vanistan bleed valve mod and it ended when someone (maybe me) showed the heat range of the tubing isn't even close to dangerous for the coolant in a motor. I assume it's a similar deal here, with a 500F capable tube.
I maintain that for a $7k turnkey solution that looks great. If I was spending $25k, would I want a tig'd aluminum intake tube? Powder coated intake manifold? Hidden wires? Show ready engine bay? Yes. But we're not discussing a theoretical higher costing swap. For $7k it looks awesome, better than most swaps I've seen, and way better than stock.
Skills, if you compare your engine bay, which looks great, to this engine bay, of course it doesn't compare. What do you value your swap at? _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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while that clear vinyl tube has no business inside an engine compartment.
that's the no pressure line to the overflow tank.
though it'll get soft and could swell or collapse with the engine bay heat..
I like to use the reinforced soda line for those applications
actually I have in the past..
I don't try to sell my work or ideas to anyone for real folding cash..
it's just my worthless $.02
and I'm the only one responsible if I end up on the side of the road..
that spiral wrapped intake tube has to sing a bit at times. and can't help with breathing efficiency _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9613 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
that spiral wrapped intake tube has to sing a bit at times. and can't help with breathing efficiency |
The transaxle will appreciate any horsepower reduction it can get.
Especially an old, poorly maintained transaxle.
Of which there are a few out there, ….,maybe 98%.
$7k could leave a little extra $$ for a proper gearbox rebuild.
Which is the next big-ticket item.
With a big engine there is some sense in opting for the BEST transaxle build.
I wrote “some”.
It’s borderline ludicrous to spend all your money on a 100-200k mile engine that fully doubles the duty-cycle - on an old decrepit drivetrain.
Save a CHUNK of cash for the gearbox.
"$15-25,000 conversions" total-wrecks a lot of older vans.
A $7k Subaru conversion _could be_ more reliable than a $7k WBX rebuild.
There' a lot of $5,000 vans out there that have YEARS remaining, lots of trips, smiles, memories.
A $15k conversion would put those vans so far under-water it's just foolish.
And I don't generally disagree with skills@, I find his advice valuable and generous.
I can appreciate that he would not do a job like that.
And agree with the math too.
But in this case the operative question regarding the $7,000 Subrau is not the aesthetic preferences, it's:
reliability
longevity
practicality
financial feasibility _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2659
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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@skills...I'd like to see one of your install too.
Not that you have anything to prove to me or anyone I just like to see how you go about it.
Eye candy and curiosity. Your too far away for me to be a customer. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22668 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Search for his great thread on fixing up one of the 7k jobs he posted here and all the corners that were cut. _________________ .ssS! |
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Silverghost500 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2018 Posts: 1088 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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I'd be skeptical of the conversion in the pic seeing the "rattle can rebuild" evidence of silver paint on things that shouldn't have it. Like the alternator windings. C'mon! They can't take time to even take the alternator off for that?That's just down right laziness!
As far as the clear tubing for coolant, I guess they couldn't afford to use another 16-20+ inches of extra tubing to route it around the back. That might drive the cost of the conversion to $7,002.46. _________________ 1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic
Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3099 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Cost of turnkey Subaru Conversion |
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Abscate wrote: |
Search for his great thread on fixing up one of the 7k jobs he posted here and all the corners that were cut. |
I wonder if after-the-fact engine conversion assessment by a prior tech is like written programing code- the new coder always says, I CAN'T believe the last guy did it this way. SO muddled, I gotta re-write the whole thing "Properly". this old stuff is SHIT!
The new tech can't even know what the circumstances were at the original build so any judgement is off base.
I'm with Sodo above - cost/effort/benefit relationship based on the unique circumstance. Those with unlimited resources sometimes don't get that viewpoint - Like a recent thread on here using a $4.00 316 SS bolt when a $0.50 SS one would do just fine in that application. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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