| Author |
Message |
mpoulterer
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2019
Posts: 6
Location: IL
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:19 am Post subject: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
 |
|
So I bought a 73 camper with a type 4 2.0 engine that came with cylinder heads with the three bolt configuration. Everything else seems to work for my rebuild except for the gasket for the cylinder head. Does anyone know where I can get this gasket?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
Ooh.
Nice heads....expensive heads.....those are Porsche 914 2.0L onlybut on a bus that is prone to overheating they may be at even more of a risk for cracking.
Part # 039 129 707 at automobile Atlanta
http://autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/914.php
About $8 each. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mpoulterer
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2019
Posts: 6
Location: IL
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
Found them. Thanks.
Last edited by mpoulterer on Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mpoulterer
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2019
Posts: 6
Location: IL
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
Nice heads....expensive heads.....those are Porsche 914 2.0L only but on a bus that is prone to overheating they may be at even more of a risk for cracking.
Would a remote oil cooler solve this problem? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| Get an Exacto knife and a roll of high temp gasket material and cut your own, they just seal vacuum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 280
Location: atlanta ga
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| we always have plenty of the 039129707 intake blocks in stock |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| mpoulterer wrote: |
Nice heads....expensive heads.....those are Porsche 914 2.0L only but on a bus that is prone to overheating they may be at even more of a risk for cracking.
Would a remote oil cooler solve this problem? |
Not really. Its not about oil temps it about head temps.
The 914 2.0L heads had the best combustion chamber shape and volume and plug angle. They made more hp than the rest of the head designs. But....they were prone to cracking if an when they got repeatedly overheated... due to the casting shape even when pushing around a 2000+ lb small car like the 914.
Its something to keep an eye on. What else do you know about the engine? case number?
On the other hand....looking carefully at your picture...see the two spots on either side of the center stud? Are those just dirt marks from the two open holes that were not used on a normal four bolt gasket?.......or have the original two studs been removed and the holes been filled"
On one hand...Those look like...just from the picture...that they may have been four bolt heads with the studs just cut off and a center stud installed...because someone wanted to install a larger set of 914 2.0L fuel injection runners on.
I have even done that mod myself.
On the third hand....those heads have teh rocker box vent tubes...lower right hand corner of your picture.
So this marks them as heads that came with D-jet injection...so they were either actual Porsche 2.0L heads...or they are 1.7L heads from a 411/412/Porsche 914 that have had the three stud mod done to them.
Easy way to tell is read the part # inside of the rocker box and post it here. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
Purchased a crated 914 2.0L - disassembled for repair. Dropped a seat and toasted a 3bolt head- it was in a bus.
. Have recently found a pair of reportedly unmolested 3bolt heads. Won’t be going in a bus, I tell you whut.
Are there ways of increasing head cooling?
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 280
Location: atlanta ga
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| the factory cooling was perfectly sufficient for a stock engine, yet too many remove sheet metal, the bellows flaps, engine bay sealing gaskets, and block the flow of air to the fan. All of these things make the engine cook |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mpoulterer
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2019
Posts: 6
Location: IL
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| mpoulterer wrote: |
Nice heads....expensive heads.....those are Porsche 914 2.0L only but on a bus that is prone to overheating they may be at even more of a risk for cracking.
Would a remote oil cooler solve this problem? |
Not really. Its not about oil temps it about head temps.
The 914 2.0L heads had the best combustion chamber shape and volume and plug angle. They made more hp than the rest of the head designs. But....they were prone to cracking if an when they got repeatedly overheated... due to the casting shape even when pushing around a 2000+ lb small car like the 914.
Its something to keep an eye on. What else do you know about the engine? case number?
On the other hand....looking carefully at your picture...see the two spots on either side of the center stud? Are those just dirt marks from the two open holes that were not used on a normal four bolt gasket?.......or have the original two studs been removed and the holes been filled"
On one hand...Those look like...just from the picture...that they may have been four bolt heads with the studs just cut off and a center stud installed...because someone wanted to install a larger set of 914 2.0L fuel injection runners on.
I have even done that mod myself.
On the third hand....those heads have teh rocker box vent tubes...lower right hand corner of your picture.
So this marks them as heads that came with D-jet injection...so they were either actual Porsche 2.0L heads...or they are 1.7L heads from a 411/412/Porsche 914 that have had the three stud mod done to them.
Easy way to tell is read the part # inside of the rocker box and post it here. Ray |
Sorry to confuse you. I just pulled this picture from somewhere online because my bus engine is in 1000's of parts about an hour from me. When I get out there I'll snap some pictures and post them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| the factory cooling was perfectly sufficient for a stock engine, yet too many remove sheet metal, the bellows flaps, engine bay sealing gaskets, and block the flow of air to the fan. All of these things make the engine cook |
Yes...agree!....But also remember....for a stock engine in a stock car. This is not to say the stock cooling system is not excellent for a greater/hotter than stock car.
Just that as you increase output you have to get even more careful on tuning, fueling, camshafts exhaust etc....to keep the heat in the stock system manageable.
To be more clear about the 2.0 head issues....they worked excellently with the stock cooling system. There is no need to do anything to it....just do it correctly.
The problem is the 2.0 914 casting itself. No its not defective. No they are not weak. It has some critical crack prone areas due to the changes made in combustion chamber and plug angle....the things that made it a great head.
The problem is that being the sportier version of the 914...these engines were worked harder...usually. If they got overheated repeatedly over time....from a combination of driving habits, poor cleaning and maintenance....and more importantly poor maintenance of fuel and ignition by their owners.....they were prone to cracking in several places.
Now cut to teh fact that virtually all of them are pushing 45 years old...and add to the fact that in this thread they are not going into an engine in a 2000 lb sports car but into a 4000 lb bus....and buses are notorious for running hotter with the load.....you are going to run some risks.
Add to this...if you are building a "bus style/spec" engine...meaning lower compression...larger deck...different cam...lower gearing....you are going to run a few more risks with these heads.
Doe this mean they are not good heads for a bus engine? No it does not mean that. The right combo they could be killer.
BUT...at 45 years old now about 75% of these heads need serious work .We are talking all new seats, guides, valves and welding up any cracks....and those 75% usually all have cracks.
Because they are sought after by 914 guys....I would sell them if they are in good shape. But...if you really want 914 2.0L heads...I would buy new castings for them and have your heads built. The 2.0L 914 casting is available again. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 280
Location: atlanta ga
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
amen brother!
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| the factory cooling was perfectly sufficient for a stock engine, yet too many remove sheet metal, the bellows flaps, engine bay sealing gaskets, and block the flow of air to the fan. All of these things make the engine cook |
Yes...agree!....But also remember....for a stock engine in a stock car. This is not to say the stock cooling system is not excellent for a greater/hotter than stock car.
Just that as you increase output you have to get even more careful on tuning, fueling, camshafts exhaust etc....to keep the heat in the stock system manageable.
To be more clear about the 2.0 head issues....they worked excellently with the stock cooling system. There is no need to do anything to it....just do it correctly.
The problem is the 2.0 914 casting itself. No its not defective. No they are not weak. It has some critical crack prone areas due to the changes made in combustion chamber and plug angle....the things that made it a great head.
The problem is that being the sportier version of the 914...these engines were worked harder...usually. If they got overheated repeatedly over time....from a combination of driving habits, poor cleaning and maintenance....and more importantly poor maintenance of fuel and ignition by their owners.....they were prone to cracking in several places.
Now cut to teh fact that virtually all of them are pushing 45 years old...and add to the fact that in this thread they are not going into an engine in a 2000 lb sports car but into a 4000 lb bus....and buses are notorious for running hotter with the load.....you are going to run some risks.
Add to this...if you are building a "bus style/spec" engine...meaning lower compression...larger deck...different cam...lower gearing....you are going to run a few more risks with these heads.
Doe this mean they are not good heads for a bus engine? No it does not mean that. The right combo they could be killer.
BUT...at 45 years old now about 75% of these heads need serious work .We are talking all new seats, guides, valves and welding up any cracks....and those 75% usually all have cracks.
Because they are sought after by 914 guys....I would sell them if they are in good shape. But...if you really want 914 2.0L heads...I would buy new castings for them and have your heads built. The 2.0L 914 casting is available again. Ray |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| How did this thread get HighJacked to overheating from Gaskets? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mpoulterer
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2019
Posts: 6
Location: IL
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
As I've been listening to everything that's being said, I'm starting to think that the best thing would be to replace the engine and start with something that would run cooler.
Does anyone know how much money I could get for this engine if it is running? The more I research, the more I hear that this engine is probably worth something to 914 enthusiasts (which is where it seems to belong.) Another important thing to note is that the pistons were replaced with 103mm pistons. They did this before I bought it, but I have just dropped $$$ to buy new ones because they were shot!
I know that probably isn't enough info, but if someone has an idea of the range that I would be able to get, so I could start to think seriously about my next step, I'd appreciate it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Three Bolt Cylinder Head Gasket |
|
|
| Look in the classifieds on this site under Porsche for 914 engines or heads wanted or for sale and you might get an idea of what it might be worth compared to what another motor might cost you. You may want to just sell the heads and buy the correct heads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
