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Muffler restoration shop?
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

When you replace that pre-heat tube, make sure the length of its protrusion into the muffler body is measured first, and duplicated exactly.

That distance, and the precise insertion depth of the "peas shooter" (resonator) on that side determine if/how well your heat riser will work.
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harrymarlin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Good point - I'll pass on that information. Do you suppose that is the kind of thing which can be successfully "patched" or even have a sheath wrapped around it, or does it need to be replaced? Are there comparable replacements (or substitutions) out there, or would I need to buy a new muffler to get that replacement part?

Thanks, KTPhil!
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Jos.Hall
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

not that my .02 are worth much but for your level of restoration, I'd avoid the sheath wrapping as much as possible. In the end it'll be the one spot your eye is always drawn to. Along with what KTPhil was saying I'd have the whole tube replaced. It's gonna be about the same price to have the whole piece replaced as it is just to have it patched. As for a replacement part there are plenty of people out here who have spare mufflers laying around and wouldn't mind cutting off the heat riser for the cost of shipping. In fact, if need be I'll cut the one of my current muffler and send it to you in the box I'm sending your way. (I'm assuming I'll find an NOS muffler someday that I have the spare funds for lol)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Jos.Hall wrote:
As for a replacement part there are plenty of people out here who have spare mufflers laying around and wouldn't mind cutting off the heat riser for the cost of shipping. In fact, if need be I'll cut the one of my current muffler and send it to you in the box I'm sending your way.


Yes, I agree, a sheath would be less than ideal. The fellow doing this said he can make a new tube, he just isn't sure he has a tube bender small enough. I wait for him to get back with me, and then I might put out a request through a classified ad or a post. I'm not sure how much of a section he would need, at this point, as well.

Thanks, Jos!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

So, the person working on the muffler didn't measure the pre-heat tube from inside the muffler, but *did* measure the entire pre-heat tube before installation:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


However, the end result shows a pre-heat tube coming significantly through the tailpipe. This looks pretty far to me - and not something I remember seeing.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's unfortunate that the pictures before showed an inside so black it's possible we just couldn't see it. I have a NOS muffler (OEM), and the pre-heat tube ends at the entrance of the tailpipe in the muffler (the tailpipe appears to be 2.5" long). Below is an original picture from the same angle:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note, you can always grind down, but you can't build back up. Potential questions I had:
1) Having the pre-heat tube through the tail pipe takes up space in a small pipe - does it impact the exhaust trying to come out from the main muffler?
2) Why would OEM have the pre-heat tube end farther back into the muffler?
3) Would having the pre-heat tube out this far impact the tips slipped onto the tail pipe - or be impacted by the tips?
4) As long as it is in the tail pipe, does it make a difference how far into the tailpipe the pre-heat tube goes?

So, anyone here have an OE muffler they can compare against? Thanks!
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Jos.Hall
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

I would think that the preheat tube coming that far out would restrict the exhaust gases more than normal. If it were mine I would take a dremel or similar rotary tool and use a wheel to cut the excess tubing back an inch or two. With a small enough cutting disc you should be able to get the blade all the way and cut it off right at the tailpipe base. Gotta make sure the cutoff wheel shaft is long enough though.
The other option would be to try and put a bigger bend on the pre heat tube while it's still inside the muffler. This would be difficult but with some redneck engineering (of which I hold a doctorate), it could be done.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

I thought so, as well, Jos! After scouring the gallery (apparently taking a picture directly up a tail pipe is not a popular photo), I found the following pictures - one from a 36hp, and one from a 1965 Beetle. They both seem to show the pre-heat outlet coming out of the tailpipe slightly. So, I guess he measured correctly.

Or are you guys seeing it differently?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

It is supposed to come out into the tailpipe, that's what makes the heat riser work. Just how far exactly, I couldn't tell you.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

How far out of the muffler isn't as important as how far you insert the tail pipe, there's some measurements and discussion on it here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634080
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
How far out of the muffler isn't as important as how far you insert the tail pipe, there's some measurements and discussion on it here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634080


Awesome! Thanks! I also found the following quote (in that thread) to be very interesting:
ashman40 wrote:
Sometimes the end of the heat riser tube that ends in the "muffler" is not centered in the exhaust opening. You may need to tweak it just a bit. That tube, which comes from the heat tube that runs below the intake manifold, should sit INSIDE the tail-pipes. This results in a vacuum that draws the exhaust through the heat riser and out the exhaust.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

For those following, I finally mounted the restored original muffler on my engine. Since my last post, it has been coated inside with high-temp paint and ceramic coated outside by Jet Hot. Nick at Specialty Cars did a wonderful job on the repairs and restoration (,I couldn't even tell it was welded!), and I look forward to having this muffler for a very long time!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Looks excellent! Did the shop have a choice of colors for the external ceramic coating?

Will you now treat that special muffler to a nice set of taper-tip pipes instead of bland stock pea-shooters? http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Chrome-Tapered-Tail-Pipes-T1-Pair-p/tapered-tail-pipes.htm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Rome wrote:


Will you now treat that special muffler to a nice set of taper-tip pipes instead of bland stock pea-shooters?


I for one hope not.
Why would you go through all that effort to restore a stock exhaust only to junk it up with non stock parts.
Those pea shooters are heart of their character.
My humble opinion.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

I'm interested to know what color Jet-Hot you used too.

Your intake also looks like it could be coated?
If it's also Jet-Hot, what color was used for that?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Definitely stock pea shooters after all this! Wink

I have a few VW HWE stamped exhaust tips I am going to use on the muffler. The original muffler had a couple of dented and rusted out VW stamped tips, but I haven't been able to find any of those, except the HWE ones - anyone have originals?

Everett - originally I was going to have Jet Hot paint the muffler and heater boxes in "Muscle Gray," but they couldn't get the color right (it kept on coming out green, apparently), so I ended up going with Titanium, which has a slight bit more sheen than I desired.

The intake manifold was "heat resistant paint with ceramic" by TheSamba user branston, when he restored my original manifold. He just said it was the "correct color grey," but I'm checking on the exact paint used. It looks really great. He was able to clean out the manifold when my folks here couldn't.

For anyone interested in going through this process, just know that it cost me about 10 times more than buying a new muffler, so don't do this to save money. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

Just get something like the A-1 bullet "muffler" then you can easily inspect if it needs cleaning... Wink


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Muffler restoration shop? Reply with quote

tattooed_pariah wrote:
Just get something like the A-1 bullet "muffler" then you can easily inspect if it needs cleaning... Wink


hmmm... that doesn't quite look stock... Wink
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