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Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle
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Adriel Rowley
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:

Not possible. With one side on, the other is that far off, as seen in the picture.


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^^^ That is vertical offset.


I am not entirely sure why, however, my computer isn't reading the punch cards correctly so information isn't correctly nor making correct calculations, so punching the cards incorrectly, output data is faulty. Clearly this is evident as neither post is anywhere close to being understandable. Or is it?

Almost wishing didn't have to go to Ruby tomorrow and glue the windshield seal to the glass, however, takes 48 hours so needs to be done tomorrow. No other way to get the bottom of the seal to curve up and stay in place.

So since I am brain dead, what is your point?
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Picture for the previous updates.
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Today was short, relaxed day, the only goal was to get the bottom of the windshield seal glued to the glass, the urethane needs 48 hours to cure. Donald (turns out his preference) suggested putting into the opening to clamp it.
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Question, would it be better to install the oil filter housing before the muffler?
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:

Question, would it be better to install the oil filter housing before the muffler?


You will need to replace the entire pump with the new one, without the muffler in place. Loosen up the bolts/nuts above and below the pump int he case to loosen up on the pump slightly.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:

Question, would it be better to install the oil filter housing before the muffler?


You will need to replace the entire pump with the new one, without the muffler in place. Loosen up the bolts/nuts above and below the pump int he case to loosen up on the pump slightly.


Thank you for the help. Very Happy I don't recall it coming with a new pump, interesting.

I will try and remember to bring my strong magnet, too.
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

The only doghouse fan on theSamba is a NOS Mexican 35mm, seller responded quickly and in a few minutes the transaction was complete; says will ship out on Tuesday.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:

Thank you for the help. Very Happy I don't recall it coming with a new pump, interesting.

I will try and remember to bring my strong magnet, too.


You will need to match the oil pump drive gear to match the camshaft. Not doing so will either have the drive gear sticking out of the pump body or most likely be catastrophic to the engine sooner or later when the gear tang barely engaging the camshaft wears off.... Same matching is required for the stock oil pumps.

Unfortunately any magnet will not have much pull with the aluminum body of the oil pump. So you most likely need to buy or make a puller.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:

Thank you for the help. Very Happy I don't recall it coming with a new pump, interesting.

I will try and remember to bring my strong magnet, too.


You will need to match the oil pump drive gear to match the camshaft. Not doing so will either have the drive gear sticking out of the pump body or most likely be catastrophic to the engine sooner or later when the gear tang barely engaging the camshaft wears off.... Same matching is required for the stock oil pumps.

Unfortunately any magnet will not have much pull with the aluminum body of the oil pump. So you most likely need to buy or make a puller.


I bought the one for the 1970 and earlier camshafts. What other matching is there?

It has been a long time and I remember doing that. I think Dad had one, just have to remember where it is... This is where be nice if there was another Volkswagen person out here, could go borrow it rather then end up with two.
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:

I bought the one for the 1970 and earlier camshafts. What other matching is there?


If engine was rebuilt since 1971, it could have the dished cam that requires longer pump shaft.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482122&highlight=flat++dished+cam
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:

I bought the one for the 1970 and earlier camshafts. What other matching is there?


If engine was rebuilt since 1971, it could have the dished cam that requires longer pump shaft.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482122&highlight=flat++dished+cam


Weird I was not notified of this reply.

Well, that be the pits, set me back at least a week if not two.

I didn't pull it apart before ordering as thought the 1200cc camshaft differed from the 1500cc camshaft, plus, I try not to pull things apart and let them sit.
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Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

So far I have purchased:
NOS Mexican 35mm fan, shipping out on Tuesday
Doghouse fan shroud, label printed and shipping on Monday
A pair of exhaust tins
Pulley (coming from up the road in Camp Verde)
Oil cooler adapter
6mm to 8mm step studs
1 October
Hoover bit purchased

A seller is checking if has the firewall tin, don't understand how could not keep track of inventory, though do appreciate checking rather than selling and then refunding.


Edit... Forgot about the flaps today, not sure if sent a request for shipping quote, though nothing in my inbox, so sent a shipping quote request.


Found the stock rubber seals, though before order see about going over to storage and see if can see the file box containing the pump puller.


Phil mentioned he uses a Type 3 oil cooler, since have a nice example, going to use that. My crazy idea is down the road is use the M10x1,0 (IIRC) sensor port and adapt to use the VDO oil temperature sensor. A some of the weather seal foam recommended for the exhaust tins and oil cooler to seal the hole. If never do it, not going to hurt anything.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

I wonder if Wolfsburg West used enough packing peanuts. Laughing
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If I lay a yardstick over both intake manifold ports, looks as if in vertical alignment, though not holding my breath until fits.


I do see the flanges are welded flush or almost flush to the pipes, the other one is set a few millimeters back.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Wolfsburg West was unhappy hearing from me, blew me off despite me being calm and polite. I can understand how it is upsetting to them paying all the money to get another exhaust sent via FedEx and the customer comes back.


So, clearly the fixture produces differences in how the flanges are welded on, one muffler is deeper and neither has the flanges in the same plane as the other, even off on the right in different amounts
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Is my understanding the head surfaces are in the same plane, parallel to each other? Meaning, two mufflers set against each other should sit flush?


The replacement muffler is an improvement. In this case, it easily slides onto three of the studs.
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However, on the fourth it sits rotated off of the hole, as seen in this picture.
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Is this close enough to the hole to rotate the flange without damaging the soft aluminium heads? I am sturdy and strong, who doesn't always know how much force he is applying.


Another idea I have is to cut the flange off the first muffler, installing the cutting off flange to the head, mounting the muffler to the other head, installing the intake manifold, then welding the flange back on. Thought(s)?
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

I can't comment on the heads but i can tell you i had similar issues with my west German muffler and stock 40hp intake manifold. I had to play games to get things to align at the heat risers.

IMO i would open the hole a little before i forced the head studs but i have had to actually try that so take it for what it is worth.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

matthew henricks wrote:
I can't comment on the heads but i can tell you i had similar issues with my west German muffler and stock 40hp intake manifold. I had to play games to get things to align at the heat risers.

IMO i would open the hole a little before i forced the head studs but i have had to actually try that so take it for what it is worth.


Matthew, I do really appreciate your reply, it is helpful as confirms my concern about getting the muffler mounted to heads and then have the intake not fit.


I did a lot of digging on brand recommendations, found this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=0. Clearly we are in a group of many who have experienced how well fitting Dansk is.


I just let Wolfsburg West know I am not going to do any further attempts, I wasted enough time not thinking to look for a NOS example; this was after sending a couple shipping quote requests.


I am hoping to acquire this type, manufactured by Volkswagen in the mid 1970s to early 1980s (according to Tram) as glutamodo and alex857 highly recommend: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723526
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Both heads exhaust ports should be parallel, but not in same plane due to the heads are offset from each other.

You could try installing cardboard (to protect the head gasket surfaces), and three of the mounting nuts on the heads a little loosely. Then a pipe wrench to twist the one hole to alignment to the fourth stud hole.

Have had to do same with preheat pipes on several mufflers.

Failing that, cut the exhaust pipe about 2/3rd thru and then twist it to shape. Take the now fitting muffler to a muffler shop. With six pack in hand and have them weld cut closed.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Both heads exhaust ports should be parallel, but not in same plane due to the heads are offset from each other.

You could try installing cardboard (to protect the head gasket surfaces), and three of the mounting nuts on the heads a little loosely. Then a pipe wrench to twist the one hole to alignment to the fourth stud hole.

Have had to do same with preheat pipes on several mufflers.

Failing that, cut the exhaust pipe about 2/3rd thru and then twist it to shape. Take the now fitting muffler to a muffler shop. With six pack in hand and have them weld cut closed.


Thank you.


Yes, forgot about the offset, wish my brain start working.


By the way, I have never drank or bought beer, so I am clueless. I did get given a free bottle of Vodka and the other day made myself a screwdriver to settle my stomach, really helped.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

After a solid two hours and a lot of soap, the trim is sort of in. Last time I did it in about 10, 15, minutes and the ends lined ups fine, I am frustrated by the difference. If the clip will cover the bottom, most likely trim the trim at the top, really not feeling pulling it out again, though now know the trick: got to spread the groove wide with a screwdriver. Next fight, getting the windshield into the body.
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Now I know one must glue the gasket entirely to the glass, not just the bottom, before installing the trim. Tape will not stick and clamps are okay, though get in the way of installing the trim.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

I had a thought after spending too much time with the windshield trim (my friend was itching to get the windshield installed today): what if since the rubber is not designed for the thinner windshields, what if also not changed to accept the significantly thicker trim? Having nothing to loose, gave straitening the original trim a whirl, and got it mostly strait, do the final when I bend to the final shape.
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The tools used.
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I am feeling really knackered, thinking maybe take tomorrow off and maybe Friday. I am to the point where there is concern I have enough mental clarity not to make mistakes.


I did get the oil pump cover off, turns out the information I was told about the gears being aluminium was incorrect, they are steel. There is about one centimeter of play in the pump, I don't think this is stock specification, right?


Can you all see the wear to the spline? Shocked Makes me wonder about the camshaft, though can't as need Ruby on the road ASAP.
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Not yet pulled the pump, the pump is too stuck to pull up with a screwdriver as recommended on this forum. And no, I did no damage to the pump.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Adriel Rowley wrote:

I did get the oil pump cover off, turns out the information I was told about the gears being aluminium was incorrect, they are steel. There is about one centimeter of play in the pump, I don't think this is stock specification, right?


You have over 3/8" of play between the gear teeth????????????? Shocked

Yes, gears, & shafts are steel, while pump body is aluminum. Wear on that gear drive shaft is OK, but you really need to sort out how much wear between the gear teeth and cover to gears.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Dad's 1964 Ruby Red Beetle Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Adriel Rowley wrote:

I did get the oil pump cover off, turns out the information I was told about the gears being aluminium was incorrect, they are steel. There is about one centimeter of play in the pump, I don't think this is stock specification, right?


You have over 3/8" of play between the gear teeth????????????? Shocked


Yep, measuring at the rim. I thought it might be somewhat out of specification, by your reaction take it is really out of specification. Over 250,000 miles on the rebuild and can't ask Dad if used a new pump, might be the original to the case.


Eric&Barb wrote:
Yes, gears, & shafts are steel, while pump body is aluminum. Wear on that gear drive shaft is OK, but you really need to sort out how much wear between the gear teeth and cover to gears.


Okay, apparently I am not understanding. I thought the pump had to be replaced when installing the spin on filter?

The kit does come with a new pump, why I should have checked the camshaft gear before ordering.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810

1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
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