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Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Looks OK to me....

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Definitely serious cash to make that come out as good as it did. The fan shroud style to me is horrible shape. The cable linkage on a cal-look style engine is ugly, and the oil filler springing up out of know-where is ugly as all hell. But you can see someone did the best they could with no limit on cash. That's a $15,000 engine.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

That's a bloody poor excuse for air cleaners but other than that it's as pretty as they come.
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Then comes mechanical beauty...... once a type 4 is converted to go onto type 1, its pretty damn ugly.
Beauty is in the eye of the owner... Wink
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Crocteau, I like the full flow lines and the oil filler is better then the other type 4. Having a distributor adds to the beauty also.

By saying something is ugly, we got several pictures of different ways of doing a type 4. Between combining select parts from all the pictures, I think a decent looking type 4 could be had. Man I need to talk crap more often Very Happy
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Glenn wrote:
Looks OK to me....

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Definitely serious cash to make that come out as good as it did....

...But you can see someone did the best they could with no limit on cash. That's a $15,000 engine.

One word.... JAKE RABY.

His personal engine.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

OK guys now that I have your attention, I need your help.

It has been 8 years since I posted this amazing story.


T-4 Store has a 5 week wait and $625 for similar. This is was hand made by Joe of the West, the Creator him self. Check out the Notes.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500134&highlight=amazing+story

I am 71 1/2 ( 10 year olds add the 1/2 to sound older) I thought one day I would get another bug and put the DTM on it. Not going to happen I have 3 cars and down to a 1 car garage.

I even added a billet Aluminum Alt. backing plate and cut out the surround tin templates. To get rid of the mouse pee.

T-4 Store has a 5 week wait and $625 to over $1000 for similar. This is was hand made by Joe of the West, the Creator him self. Check out the Notes.

Crazy we are both Sicilians, working on the same creation and not knowing each existed till I saw his ad in HVW's. I gave credits to him in my manual for his assistance and he recommended my manual to anyone interested in the conversion, even if they did not have the money for kit.

This is historical - it took me 8 years to think of selling it. So $650 - $800 maybe. Most likely Ebay next week -- I checked shipping to Calif from NY and by UPS Ground $60 Chicago $40 NY $30

Took recent photos but Photobucket kicked me out and can't figure how to use this NG Photo system
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

What was I thinking, the T-1 DTM is $625

T-4 start at $1000 and go as high as $2000.
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

I'll chime in on the picture train Laughing

My T4 DTM setup headed for my '67 T1. Bone stock (but fresh) 2.0 T4 removed from my late bay when I went subi on it.

Fit-up on the DTM left a lot to be desired IMO. I understand all aftermarket stuff needs work, but I had higher expectations given the price of the kit. I have a LOT of hours into tweaking fit, ESPECIALLY on the cooling tin filler pieces Mad

Coming along pretty well, but I keep getting other projects bumped in front of it. Got a BAS/Ahnendorp header for it. Debating tearing into the motor and bumping it up to a 2056 with a little more cam. Also considered going full on 2270, but prices escalate quickly, especially heads.

Had I been starting from scratch and not had this fresh T4 to work with, I would have stayed T1. Cost per hp is a lot better there, and there are TONS of options out there. Sure the T1 might not last as long, but for an occasional use toy like my '67, I'll be back into it due to my own inability to leave well enough along long before it needs it.

T1 vs T4 is a personal preference thing, much like the subi swap on the Bus was. Do what makes you happy. No ones situation is exactly the same, so cost vs benefit will be different for different people.

Guess I'll see if the is something to the T4 cool-aid though Laughing

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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Maybe it's just me, but here's something I just don't get: people are putting big $$$$ into their engines, etc, but even the best builds here don't have a decent rear apron. At those prices, I would expect well-molded front and back "tins", to make the compartment airtight, like stock.

I'll probably be told that id doesn't matter to any measurable extent, but still, wouldn't you like something like that?

I do understand that the front "tin" is hard to make in fiberglass, owing to thickness issues, and the plethora of pulleys available. But still...
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Freebug I could not agree more. My rear is fiberglass, my front is rotting out and I have to use steel.






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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
APPLEGREENVW wrote:
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I don't see anything ugly this photo. Cool Drool


That's the coolest one I've seen! The ugly ass oil filler is not in the picture, and still needs to be added though. For $600 in cooling for a type 4 conversion that's pretty darn clean.


I. WANT. THAT. ENGINE. FOR. MY. SUPER BEETLE.

I have a 1.7 914 case, but no guts - no crank, cam, pistons, or heads, and assorted hardware....wishlist.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Hey Vamram,
a bit of info. DPM and the Cali Style are better then the CSP for one big reason and it is also the reason it looks so clean.

You have to run hoses to the front of your Super Beetle, the CSP does not have an oil cooler in it. Also no Thermostat so you may have problems reaching running temp in any temps below 70 f.

The Cali Style does and uses stock Thermostat and oil cooler in the stock location.

That said, if it is reasonable i will work. Guys in warm weather will not have a problem just to some good hoses or steel lines for the cooler.
BTY the Super is a better candidate for the front cooler due to more room.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Okay, this seems to be on many type 4 fan shrouds. Another area that really is not helping the image is the cyclops hose coming out the top of the fan shroud. Is it heat or is it Electrolux vacuum accessory? Can your Volkswagen vacuum your shop once you convert to type 4? Or is this just the worst way to incorporate a ugly heater hose?

Help, Kirby/Electrolux vacuum hose stolen:
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Wait, its right here:
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Vamran, forgot to mention, my bug if it was in a 914 would do 128 mph.

But in a standard bug it lifts at 100mph and I loose steering.

Not on a Super- the European guys like Supers.
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

I actually have your conversion manual. But lack of skills and $$ pretty much killed that dream. For now.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

I must admit the hose is ugly but----------- What makes the DTM the choice of a lot of big engine builders is DTM stands for DOWN THE MIDDLE.

Stock Fanhousing do not cool all 4 cylinders evenly .. The DTM goes right down the middle of all 4.

As for the Ugly hose. The fan housing cools engine evenly and the hose gives exactly correct cooling air to the oil cooler.

It was very well thought out.
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

since everyone is talking about fans, and I learn a lot from this forum

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I can see for drag racing, but daily use? Seems... sketch

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2269517
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
since everyone is talking about fans, and I learn a lot from this forum

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I can see for drag racing, but daily use? Seems... sketch

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2269517


I find it very hard to imagine that working on a DD.
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H2OSB
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
jpaull wrote:
Glenn wrote:
Looks OK to me....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Definitely serious cash to make that come out as good as it did....

...But you can see someone did the best they could with no limit on cash. That's a $15,000 engine.

One word.... JAKE RABY.

His personal engine.


Uh...that's two words
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Reply with quote

APPLEGREENVW wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I don't see anything ugly this photo. Cool Drool


I'm with Vamram...I want this engine. It's beautiful. Imagine it as a 1911 with 36 Dells, or a 2056 with 40s.

H2OSB
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