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1974 Muffler Change-Help Please!
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

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imsjry wrote:
Hi all. First time post here! Proud owner of a '74 Super as of two days ago. The issue is the muffler the guy has on it is SUPER loud and I want to replace it with a stock to get the Bug purr back.

This is the muffler I'm looking at and attached is the engine. I know i need to block off the Carb heater intakes but my question is with this engine, do I need to do anything with the holes on the top of the muffler or am I just not using them and don't need to plug them up or worry?

Sorry if this is a novice silly question and thanks in advance all.

https://www.vwheritage.com/catalog/product/view/id...gory/3075/

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Where in Wisconsin are you? YES, YES, YES you need the engine tin. If you don't care at the moment for performance, then the stock muffler will be just fine.


Appleton/Oshkosh area!
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Is the sound of the muffler bothering you because of the noise inside the car, outside the car, or both?

And do make a relationship with Roy of MOFOCO. My personal experience with him has been terrific and I’m 1000 miles away. He has all kinds of parts, aftermarket and Used OEM. Give him a shot when searching for parts. There’s a good list of vendors many of us use. Just can’t find it currently.
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
Is the sound of the muffler bothering you because of the noise inside the car, outside the car, or both?


Both! It sounds absolutely nothing like a bug should sound. it sounds like a dragster and i am NOT that guy. We are shouting at each other just to talk and i feel embarrassed driving it around the neighborhood. I was told to just "put a stock muffler on" so I thought this would be something simple.

As for the Air Tin part of this, I'm lost!
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Murmsk
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Nice lookin car btw
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Based on the pictures, you're missing at least six critical pieces of engine tin that force cooling air over the heads and cylinders, not to mention that you're recirculating hot air into it because of the missing rear engine tin. You will roast that engine if you drive it for any significant distance.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

There is some hardcore ugliness going on with that remote oil filter, that's probably the reason for the missing tin. Make sure that those hoses are rated for oil.
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GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
Based on the pictures, you're missing at least six critical pieces of engine tin that force cooling air over the heads and cylinders, not to mention that you're recirculating hot air into it because of the missing rear engine tin. You will roast that engine if you drive it for any significant distance.


Ok so I want to rectify that ASAP. The PO is telling me is has high performance cooling Tin installed so I'm so confused.

Can someone let me know what specific critical parts i need that you see missing? I did make my way here but am lost otherwise. Thanks again.

https://www.jbugs.com/category/vw-engine-tin-chrome.html
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Paul Windisch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

A few things I noticed:

1) There is no engine bay seal, along with the other missing tins that others have noted.

2) What is that tube running across the top of the fan shroud and over the carburetors? It looks like a balance tube, but from what I understand, doesn't play well with individual runner carburetors, such as the IDFs that are on it.

3) The carbs appear to be perched on top of straight manifolds, so the hexbar is crooked. A pair of offset manifolds will resolve that.

In general, it looks like a decent enough car, you just need to get a few things sorted out. Welcome!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:
The PO is telling me is has high performance cooling Tin installed so I'm so confused.


Wow, what a load of crap. Rolling Eyes

Here's some homework. Take some time to look here:

http://awesomepowdercoat.com/FAQ.html

There's a picture there showing every piece you need, labeled. Then watch awesomepowdercoat's how-to videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=5F64A01FA2D7E128&search_query=awesome+powdercoat
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dubsteez79
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

This guy has all the engine tin you need. Just buy a whole set and get a diagram. And make sure you get the flaps and a thermostat if you dont have them already. Theres an install guide on this website as well.

http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/Original_German_Engine_Tin.html
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Is your carb linkage return spring hooked to your carb balance tube?

I think this car deserves a full one-over to identify and correct issues which will plague you constantly down the road.

See if you can locate a local VW car club, Samba member near you, or find a reputable air cooled VW mechanic who can assist you.

I have BIG doubts about anything that previous owner said to you or did to that car. Unfortunately, I feel like that louder than desired muffler is going to be falling FAR down the list of needed things for your new car.

Sorry to be negative. Please continue to post pictures and ask questions. The Samba community is here to help, we will help you get it straightened out for lots of carefree driving in that bug.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:
vamram wrote:
Based on the pictures, you're missing at least six critical pieces of engine tin that force cooling air over the heads and cylinders, not to mention that you're recirculating hot air into it because of the missing rear engine tin. You will roast that engine if you drive it for any significant distance.


Ok so I want to rectify that ASAP. The PO is telling me is has high performance cooling Tin installed so I'm so confused.

Can someone let me know what specific critical parts i need that you see missing? I did make my way here but am lost otherwise. Thanks again.

https://www.jbugs.com/category/vw-engine-tin-chrome.html

I would stop talking with the PO because he clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Just because the package says "high performance" doesn't mean it is better for your car.

I can tell you from experience that the people on this forum know more than 95% of anyone else you will talk to about VWs. I thought I knew a good bit about bugs before I bought my most recent and can tell you there is so much good info on this forum to learn from.

A nice looking engine like that needs proper cooling. If it were me I would take the engine out and replace all that half ass after market tin with OEM style that can be easily obtained in the classifieds... all pieces including the little odd pieces. Not only does the after market not cool as good, the chrome adds to the heat around the engine. Add to that the recycled hot air coming from the missing tins and you are asking for an overheated engine or worse. The whole job will take a weekend at most if you have all the parts ready. Four bolts and a couple hours is all there is between a long lasting, good running engine and a blown engine on the side of the road. Trust me it's worth it.
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Frank Bassman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Get us good pictures of the underside of that disaster please.

-Frank
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:

Ok so I want to rectify that ASAP. The PO is telling me is has high performance cooling Tin installed so I'm so confused.


The PO is full of shit, but to be fair to him, the problem could be ignorance/incompetence on his part rather than outright maliciousness.

But you have a fair amount work ahead of you to un-fuck the stuff he fucked up.
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Well this is my worst nightmare come true. I'm officially completely overwhelmed. A bit of tinkering on a nice old Bug i was fully expecting, but to redo the entire engine i was most certainly not. I'm just shocked to read how bad you guys say it is.

So is this; "don't drive under any circumstances" bad, "go get it looked at soon" bad, or "me with zero engine experience can do it yourself with guidance" bad?? I've already driven it a bunch including the hour long ride home from purchase.

Anyone know Samba members in the U.S, Appleton/Oshkosh-Wisconsin area?
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Murmsk
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

In all likelihood the po is telling you what someone told him probably someone who had something to sell. Listen to folks on samba. .....they have a wealth of years and experience . Their motivations are to help someone to enjoy their hobby as much as they do.

You have a beautiful car and with a few modifications ie engine tins it will provide years of enjoyment. Be glad you came here before you went on a trip and blew an engine.

Enjoy

S
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:
Well this is my worst nightmare come true. I'm officially completely overwhelmed. A bit of tinkering on a nice old Bug i was fully expecting, but to redo the entire engine i was most certainly not. I'm just shocked to read how bad you guys say it is.

So is this; "don't drive under any circumstances" bad, "go get it looked at soon" bad, or "me with zero engine experience can do it yourself with guidance" bad?? I've already driven it a bunch including the hour long ride home from purchase.

Anyone know Samba members in the U.S, Appleton/Oshkosh-Wisconsin area?
Sad



First things first: Breathe. You are not the first to jump feet first into a car or anything else and find themselves a bit overwhelmed.

I would not drive it until you at least get all the tin pieces installed. Just a bit of a risk, in my opinion. The engine could have been running hotter than stock, but it may not be a total loss. If any damage was done, it was likely done moreso by the previous owner than your drives.

Again, breathe. All is not lost.

-You are in possibly the best place to learn 'on the fly' with all of these good, knowledgeable people on this site.
-Parts are adundant for these cars.
-They are simple machines, overall.

My recommended next steps:
---Get a few repair manuals and read up on these cars. They are different. Not in a bad way- just different from other cars.
---Park the car for the moment, again at least until you get the tins in place.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:
Well this is my worst nightmare come true. I'm officially completely overwhelmed. A bit of tinkering on a nice old Bug i was fully expecting, but to redo the entire engine i was most certainly not. I'm just shocked to read how bad you guys say it is.

So is this; "don't drive under any circumstances" bad, "go get it looked at soon" bad, or "me with zero engine experience can do it yourself with guidance" bad?? I've already driven it a bunch including the hour long ride home from purchase.

Anyone know Samba members in the U.S, Appleton/Oshkosh-Wisconsin area?
Sad


As usual, the Samba has overloaded a relative newbie with a bunch of hand wringing doomsday shouting, making hm feel like he's in over his head.

Take a step back from all this and breathe. It's NOT anything terrible to fix your tin situation. Yes I agree that the tins need to be taken care of, and yes it is way easier to take care of it with the engine out of the car. That is not as bad as it sounds!! You would however need a few things to get there- jacks and jack stands, a way to lower the engine, etc. You need to at least get the engine to a point where all the tins and screw holes for them are available. At the same time this allows you access to the engine bay to install an engine seal. The complete sets of tins from awesome powdercoat look to be a few hundred bucks, not too bad. You might give them a call and discuss your situation. I'm actually having my tins powdercoated while my engine is out and I'm getting charged the same price for what awesome powdercoat looks like they'll sell you a set for.

As far as installation the best advice given so far is--at least for the first time-- try to find someone in your area that is familiar with VWs and would be willing to help you so you can see how it's done. They would probably aready have the proper equipment, and if they are close by you can still drive the thing over to them without any ill effects. I am a visual learner and was lucky enough to find someone close by me the first time I ever needed to remove the engine. Once I saw it done one time. I have done it 3-4 times since then with no probem (in fact I have my engine out now to do a refresh on it and the car.) Someone earlier mentioned joining a local VW club or you could even just post an ad on craigslist. If you're lucky they won't even charge you except a 6-pack (which is how I paid the guy to show me the first time.) I would avoid taking it to a shop because they will charge their labor rate and won't be nearly as willing to let you watch or help. There are plenty of individuals around who know how to do it and already have the necessary equipment and be happy to let you take part which would give you a nice personal hands-on experience. If you were anywhere near me I'd be more than happy to tell you to bring it right over! It really is easy to do once you've seen it done, and you'll learn a lot in the process. Good luck and keep us posted with everything!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Yes, breathe. You're not at "redoing the entire engine" but if you keep driving it like that, you soon will be.

Get the manuals as suggested in other replies.

First thing for the immediate purpose is to understand how the cooling system works. This engine is air-cooled. The whole cooling system is carefully and thoughtfully designed around air management. The tin surrounding the engine and the rubber seal that goes between the tin and the body are vital parts of the cooling system.

The whole idea is to keep the cool air separate from the hot air. This is how you keep the engine from cooking itself.

Picture the air path - The only path for air into the engine compartment should be the vents below the rear window and in the decklid. This is the cool air entry. The engine cooling fan takes in the cool air from those vents, blows it over the heavily finned cylinders and heads (and oil cooler, which is inside the fan housing) where the air takes the heat away from the engine.

The now-hot air is then dumped out underneath the car into the slipstream.

The tin and seal is the dividing line between the cold and hot sides.

When you are driving at speed the action of the fan creates a bit of a low pressure zone inside the engine compartment. With that tin missing, the hot air that is being dumped out under the engine is basically sucked up into the engine compartment, sucked into the fan, and recirculated through the cylinders and heads. Basically you're attempting to cool the engine with superhot air. This will kill the engine through overheating.

People who are mostly familiar with water-cooled cars may not really understand at first glance how the air-cooling system works and may not understand the vital role the tin plays in the cooling system. It is critical to keep the upper half of the engine sealed off from the lower half.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Did the PO ever mention how many miles on the rebuilt engine?
I would suggest you buy an inexpensive “Strobe” style timing light and learn how to use it. A test light with the alligator clips is handy too. You will need these tools at some point.

I’d want to know how the timing has been set up from the PO.

Try this link for more info.

http://www.vw-resource.com/009_dizzy.html
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67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Abscate wrote:
I dont hate anyone on the Samba - except for Xevin - who brought me cold coffee in the morning.

[email protected] wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz
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