Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Official "Ball Joint" lowering topic
Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 44, 45, 46  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Official "Ball Joint" lowering topic Reply with quote

We constantly get asked “how do I lower my car”, so this is will be a “sticky” so that we don’t have to answer the same question over and over again.

Please post descriptions, pictures and parts needed to lower a Ball Joint beam.

There will be a similar topic for Link Pin beams in the Beetle forum, so Ball Joint only here.

Please keep this technical and no BS’ing.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.


Last edited by Glenn on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's basically 2 ways to lower a ball joint beam. You can get "dropped" spindles that lower the front 2.5". Or you can get an adjustable beam.

Dropped spindles actually move the spindle up 2.5" which lowers the car. You simply replace the spindles and it's done. Some dropped spindles widen the track a 1/4" on each side, so it's 1/2" in total. You might have some tire clearance issues with these.

Adjustable beams need to be cut and have adjusters weld in. You can buy a new beam with adjusters already installed or you can buy the adjusters and install them yourself. There are 2 styles, Sway-A-Way and AVIS. I have AVIS and here are some pictures.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I lowered my car 3" in the front.

Before
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

After
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Before
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

After
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Things to watch out for:

If you lower the car more than a few inches it will alter the front end geometry. This can cause more difficult steering at low speed. To correct this you can buy Caster Shims. These are aluminum wedges that fit behind the lower torsion tube and the body and tilt the bottom tube out which restores the caster angle.

You might also need shorter shocks. If you use stock shocks, they will be precompressed and give a harsh ride. 1972 Opel GT front shocks are the same as the VW except that are 2" shorter.
KYB GR2 part# 343143 - VW Beetle front ball joint (stock)
KYB GR2 part# 344098 - Opel GT front (2” short)

You might also need a "lowered" sway bar. If you drop it more than a few inches the stock sway bar is very close to the ground. A "lowered" bar is just bend differently so it gives more ground clearance.

Ball joints are another issue. If you drop just a few inches, you're OK. But if you drop 4 or more, your ball joints will bind. Lowered ball joints are just modified so there's more travel in the joint so it can handle a more extreme angle of deflection.

When you drop the front you might have tire clearance problem. Narrower and lower tires might help. If it doesn't you can "narrow" the beam which pulls the wheels in a inch or two. But narrowing a beam is another topic.

You can also use and adjustable beam with dropped spindles so you can tune the height to exactly what you want or... drop it in the weeds and scrape the ground.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.


Last edited by Glenn on Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an excellent webpage with info and pictures on installing Sway-A-Away adjusters.

http://speedster.chriskate.net/frontbeam.html
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19397
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
keifernet is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job Glenn... long time coming Wink
_________________
my seller feedback
rebuilt carb info = for sale

"STFU Polly and go eat a cracker!" 12-21-2012.... can't wait!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dubtype1
Vdubn' Till I Die


Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 2298
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
dubtype1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another way to lower your front end without having to weld or cut anything.

You replace your springs with rods and use coil-overs to adjust ride higth and stiffness.

Click here and check it out.http://www.red9design.co.uk/ezrider.htm
_________________
MIAMI V-DUBS

Caleb
'65 Beetle project
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tornadoboy
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Tulsa, Ok
tornadoboy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Glenn, at what distance of drop do we need to worry about caster shims. I just read an artical in an old VW Trends that covered that subject, but it gave no reference to how much drop required no shims, what is the breaking point, if you will? Mine is exactly like yours, except I think they put drop spindles on too. I ride the same height as your Beetle.
_________________
Nothin left to do but smile, smile, smile.......

74' Beetle
65 Ghia, in resto
66 Micro, also in resto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say anything from 2-4" need single shims and more than 4" should have double shims.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Matt Miller
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2005
Posts: 280
Location: Costa Mesa, California
Matt Miller is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you don't need to use shims if you lower the back of the car too.

lowered 3" in the front and 2" in the back... only one inch is no biggie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1962 x3 wrote:
you don't need to use shims if you lower the back of the car too.

lowered 3" in the front and 2" in the back... only one inch is no biggie


Agreed....
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stevie Fierce
Samba Landscaper


Joined: August 31, 2002
Posts: 693
Location: Flying Dirty with the other Knee Crows
Stevie Fierce is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just remember, when you install caster shims you will need longer bolts. I believe when i bought the longer bolts they from bugpack, not 100% on that. [email protected] City in Ct. supplied mine.

Where is the best place to buy the modified BJ's themselves? I assume a few companies make them, but who's are the best?
Thanks.
_________________
Stevie MF'n Fierce
*Worlds coolest VW Tattoo*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get them at a hardware store. Stock is M12x90x1.5. so if you get M12x100x1.5 you won't have a problem.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stevie Fierce
Samba Landscaper


Joined: August 31, 2002
Posts: 693
Location: Flying Dirty with the other Knee Crows
Stevie Fierce is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had to re-evaluate my queston about where to get he quality BJ's because I thought you were telling me I could get them at a hardware store. im like, what kinda hardware store do you have over there glenn?
Smile
but yes, the bolts you can get at the hardware store. It's just that many hardware stores (Ace, by my house) doesnt deal with a huge variety of metric stuff. they have some metric, just not alot of it.
_________________
Stevie MF'n Fierce
*Worlds coolest VW Tattoo*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stevie Fierce wrote:
but yes, the bolts you can get at the hardware store. It's just that many hardware stores (Ace, by my house) doesnt deal with a huge variety of metric stuff. they have some metric, just not alot of it.


The ACE by me carries alof of metric hardware and in Grade 8.8.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
redhot
Samba Member


Joined: February 05, 2005
Posts: 447

redhot is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article is great, but some points should be clarified:

balljoints: when using drop-spindels there is no need for long-travel balljoints as far as I can think of

caster-shims: are these also needed for drop-spindels. some say yes, some say no (depends on the rear height if I am correct?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redhot wrote:
caster-shims: are these also needed for drop-spindels. some say yes, some say no (depends on the rear height if I am correct?)


I say yes, the front of the car is still pitched down which will reduce caster angle.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Stevie Fierce
Samba Landscaper


Joined: August 31, 2002
Posts: 693
Location: Flying Dirty with the other Knee Crows
Stevie Fierce is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but what if the rear of the car is dropped WAY down? is it still necessary? i just dropped my 67 another spline in the back (2) and will be going thru the front again when i install the narrower beam. currently i am running 2 in but want 5 or so! so maybe i lose my caster shims ????
any thoughts.
_________________
Stevie MF'n Fierce
*Worlds coolest VW Tattoo*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has to do with the relationship of the front to the rear.

If you drop the front 4" and the rear 3", then the next drop is 1" and you don't need the shims.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SanFranciscoBug
Samba Member


Joined: April 17, 2005
Posts: 60

SanFranciscoBug is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone post an install guide with some photos?

I've been sitting on this thing for almost a year b/c I can't find a shop to do it and I haven't been brave enough to attempt it myself Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66490
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the Bentley shop manual. Swapping in an adjustable beam is the same as replacing a stock beam.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Nebkhat
Samba Member


Joined: December 08, 2005
Posts: 1

Nebkhat is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am rather new to the site and have receintly purchased and breathed life back into my 68. Lowering it is at the top of my list for this spring. I have been searching for more information as time permits. One resource that I have found is http://www.airkewld.com/pages/howto.php I hope that it helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 44, 45, 46  Next
Jump to:
Page 1 of 46

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB