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moogie32
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Connecticut
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 Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Trylon wrote: |
Went to loosen the front lugs...and that’s where the day ended. Blaster, tapping, tugging, pleading, none of it seemed to matter. Ordered an impact wrench.
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I've had success by using a breaker bar with a long pipe fitted over the body of it to extend it out and provide more torque
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RIP HBB (1984-2009)
Du liefst so gut
Du warst so schön
Doch leider musst du von uns gehn |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| moogie32 wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
Went to loosen the front lugs...and that’s where the day ended. Blaster, tapping, tugging, pleading, none of it seemed to matter. Ordered an impact wrench.
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I've had success by using a breaker bar with a long pipe fitted over the body of it to extend it out and provide more torque |
Seems to be the Muir method. Since I don’t have a breaker bar, had to decide which route I wanted to go.
Wish me luck!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Trylon wrote: |
| moogie32 wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
Went to loosen the front lugs...and that’s where the day ended. Blaster, tapping, tugging, pleading, none of it seemed to matter. Ordered an impact wrench.
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I've had success by using a breaker bar with a long pipe fitted over the body of it to extend it out and provide more torque |
Seems to be the Muir method. Since I don’t have a breaker bar, had to decide which route I wanted to go.
Wish me luck! |
I too have always used a breaker bar to loosen/tighten lug bolts.
Typically I can free them with just the 24" breaker bar, but at times I've had to resort to slipping a length of pipe over the breaker bar to amplify my leverage.
Of course, the increased leverage then exerts increased pressure on the socket and that becomes the weak link if it's just a "regular" socket.
(Yeah, I've cracked and ruined a couple regular sockets that way.  )
Moral of The Story - Whether you use an extended breaker bar or an impact driver, you'll probably want to use an impact socket that's meant to handle the extra torque. |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
| moogie32 wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
Went to loosen the front lugs...and that’s where the day ended. Blaster, tapping, tugging, pleading, none of it seemed to matter. Ordered an impact wrench.
|
I've had success by using a breaker bar with a long pipe fitted over the body of it to extend it out and provide more torque |
Seems to be the Muir method. Since I don’t have a breaker bar, had to decide which route I wanted to go.
Wish me luck! |
I too have always used a breaker bar to loosen/tighten lug bolts.
Typically I can free them with just the 24" breaker bar, but at times I've had to resort to slipping a length of pipe over the breaker bar to amplify my leverage.
Of course, the increased leverage then exerts increased pressure on the socket and that becomes the weak link if it's just a "regular" socket.
(Yeah, I've cracked and ruined a couple regular sockets that way. )
Moral of The Story - Whether you use an extended breaker bar or an impact driver, you'll probably want to use an impact socket that's meant to handle the extra torque. |
Thanks KG! They are coming with the driver!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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Impact wrenches are great tools but keep in mind, they don't always accomplish the task at hand.
Sometimes an arsenal of tools is required to break a stubborn bolt loose.
An impact is great for shock value.
Try to loosen it, let it rattle the fastener a bit, reverse the direction to actually tighten it, let it rattle a bit.
Reverse direction to loosen, let it rattle.... back and forth you go. Tight loose tight loose tight loose.
If it is really tight, once it begins to move switch to hand tools so you can "feel" the fastener as it comes.
Heat will build up quickly on tight fasteners. Let it cool down, apply penetrating oils and run it in tight again, let it sit.
After awhile try loosening it until it gets tight. Apply oils and tighten, loosen tighten, work it back and forth but do so gently.
You will actually feel it loosen and begin to come.
Be careful, all the way out. They often tighten up again right at the end.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Impact wrenches are great tools but keep in mind, they don't always accomplish the task at hand.
Sometimes an arsenal of tools is required to break a stubborn bolt loose.
An impact is great for shock value.
Try to loosen it, let it rattle the fastener a bit, reverse the direction to actually tighten it, let it rattle a bit.
Reverse direction to loosen, let it rattle.... back and forth you go. Tight loose tight loose tight loose.
If it is really tight, once it begins to move switch to hand tools so you can "feel" the fastener as it comes.
Heat will build up quickly on tight fasteners. Let it cool down, apply penetrating oils and run it in tight again, let it sit.
After awhile try loosening it until it gets tight. Apply oils and tighten, loosen tighten, work it back and forth but do so gently.
You will actually feel it loosen and begin to come.
Be careful, all the way out. They often tighten up again right at the end.
Dave |
As you might imagine, I know none of this— thanks for enlightening me!
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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For leverage, does your hydraulic jack's handle fit over an existing tool? IMO most handles are made of strong, hollow pipe and can be removed from the jack with one or two bolts.
What you are now finding is one of the tips I often list for people about to make a long trip with a new classic VW. Many tire stores use way too high of a torque to set the rims back on after mounting new tires. As a result, the new owner can't budge the lug bolts off. If a flat tire occurs on the trip and the tools in the car don't get the bolts loose, that's one huge impediment for getting on your way. So while still at home, break loose every single lug bolt one at a time. Don't even need to remove the bolts for this trial. Then tighten to a closer spec using your body weight as estimated leverage length out on the lug wrench.
Your front wheels have a lot of movement. My guess is incorrectly adjusted/way loose king or link pins. |
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lonotch
Samba Padrino
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 3304
Location: So. Cal. Oceanside GFK!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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It seems to me rust shouldn’t be much of a issue like a car that’s been sitting for a long time, sounds like it’s been over tighten?
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| lonotch wrote: |
| It seems to me rust shouldn’t be much of a issue like a car that’s been sitting for a long time, sounds like it’s been over tighten? |
I too was surprised. Again.
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Vladiiiii
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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I sometimes have the problem that, because the front is so light, the front wheels turn while I am trying to break loose the lug bolts   So sometimes I need to chalk them. (Depends on how full the gas tank is, too).
The bearing play can be adjusted very easily, you may want to check some Youtube videos on that. There's a good one from a guy with an orange bug (but I can't find it right now), so you may want to try to tighten them, before tearing into something  Be careful, the thread on one side (drivers' side?) is reversed. But quite an easy job.
Edit: Found it, it's this one :
(It shows changing them as well, but you get the picture of how all is put together.)
Link
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Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12848
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:53 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Vladiiiii wrote: |
| I sometimes have the problem that, because the front is so light, the front wheels turn while I am trying to break loose the lug bolts ] |
Is right. They’re only supposed to be torqued to 70-90ftlbs. If the wheels turn while you’re trying to break them loose, they’re WAaaay overtorqued.
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Vladiiiii
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:57 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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If it's dry, my garage floor is quite slick. If it's wet, it's like ice I may need to paint at least 2 trails (where the wheels go) with some abrasive stuff.
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Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Vladiiiii
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:39 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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To be honest, I'm postponing this to until the Ghia is finished. And the garage is barely large enough for it anyway, so it will never carry snow inside. It's kinda hard to get into with our more "modern" cars, so it is kept for the Ghia and some tools.
But the idea is here, nontheless. It was so wierd when trying to loosen the bolts (they weren't on too tight), the wheel started turning and squeaking on the floor . My wife held the brake and loose they came. Anyway, back to topic.....
PS: Munich only got 1 or 2 days of snow this whole winter…. 
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Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:44 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I've driven VW's since the 60's, never fully expected to arrive anywhere incident free. |
May I humbly suggest that this pithy information be imparted to each and every new forum member who begins a thread in the vein of “Thinking about succumbing...”
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
The Management
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12848
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:56 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| Trylon wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
I've driven VW's since the 60's, never fully expected to arrive anywhere incident free. |
May I humbly suggest that this pithy information be imparted to each and every new forum member who begins a thread in the vein of “Thinking about succumbing...”
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
The Management |
Umm... My car is easily the most driven & abused car in the Ghia forums & I have no problem taking it anywhere I want (literally.) without fear of it breaking down.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:56 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Trylon wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
I've driven VW's since the 60's, never fully expected to arrive anywhere incident free. |
May I humbly suggest that this pithy information be imparted to each and every new forum member who begins a thread in the vein of “Thinking about succumbing...”
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
The Management |
Umm... My car is easily the most driven & abused car in the Ghia forums & I have no problem taking it anywhere I want (literally.) without fear of it breaking down. |
I'm saying nothing..I don't want to jinx what has been a remarkably .....able Ghia.
However I did find this under the rear seat when it first arrived:
...as well as a tow rope.
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12848
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:09 am Post subject: Re: '59 Karmann Ghia fever |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
I'm saying nothing..I don't want to jinx what has been a remarkably .....able Ghia.
However I did find this under the rear seat when it first arrived:
...as well as a tow rope. |
Some states used to require that road flares be kept in a vehicle.
Did you light one off?
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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