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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Working on a 2.1 that a friend bought toasted. We were told it had 0 psi in 2 and 90 psi in 2. Turns out I put a different ECU in and it fired up. Has 120 all around.
The coolant pipe end blew out and it overheated and melted the wire and fried the ECU. With those all fixed it leaks water badly around the water jacket while under pressure and the coolant pressure tank is milky and smells of gas.
Deciding if it is worth doing the top end or taking it out and replacing with a Bus Depot rebuilt 2.1 for $2k. Seems like the work to replace the core would be similar to do the top end. Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.
What would you do?
Last edited by Marshj on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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There is visible signs of the water jacket being melted and other plastic components in the motor melted. The head bolts were finger tight from the change in clearences. |
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Gauche1968 Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006 Posts: 1518
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Any pics of the damage? _________________ 1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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No but it is leaking like a siv while under pressure. 1-2 cups a minute..
Would it make sense from the overheat the head bolts would be loose and if torqued correctly would reseal the jackets?
Not sure that is even the right direction, but the decent compression numbers and running behavior throws me off |
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mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2780 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Here’s what my water jacket seal looked like when I took it out. Only leaked below freezing.
I replaced this with no issues for past couple years. Don’t forget core charge and shipping call and get a quote gta just quoted me 900 bucks shipping to Asheville on a transaxle mmmmkay looks like I’ll go local. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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a rebuilt for $2K?? cripes i had more than that into parts on my 2.1 and didn't even split the cases.
advise on a quality rebuild, like RMW or GoWesty and prepare the owner for sticker shock. otherwise YOU will be the bad guy forever.
there's WAY more to restoring a 30 year old vehicle for long family trips than a $2k rebuild. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Marshj wrote: |
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.
What would you do? |
No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.
Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.
I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine. |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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DanHoug wrote: |
a rebuilt for $2K?? cripes i had more than that into parts on my 2.1 and didn't even split the cases.
advise on a quality rebuild, like RMW or GoWesty and prepare the owner for sticker shock. otherwise YOU will be the bad guy forever.
there's WAY more to restoring a 30 year old vehicle for long family trips than a $2k rebuild. |
Exactly. That’s why he is leaning this way. We are 1:50 hrs from Bus Depot and can pick up, save on shipping core and refreshed block. http://www.busdepot.com/025100771
He was considering GoWesty, I would do RJE if going a premium route and suggested that. He weighed options and since his goal is 4-5 years then Subaru when he knows these vans better he wants to go BD rebuild route. We will be doing the work together as he learns.
I have revived two sleepers after 15 year field naps and had a 1,000 mile trip last weekend loaded with MTB gear for four and four adult males, and 750 the weekend before in 90 degree heat. I have 7k miles on this van since May. I understand what it takes to get these reliable.
Just trying to understand if it’s even worth putting energy into this top end with its water issues. |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Marshj wrote: |
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.
What would you do? |
No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.
Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.
I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine. |
Awesome feedback. Thank you.
He did get a good deal. 1990 MV, Southern van, fresh paint, no surface rust underneath. Needs a cleaning inside but serviceable for $5k with 500 miles on rebuilt manual trans and 150k on body and fresh Bilstens. |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Marshj wrote: |
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.
What would you do? |
No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.
Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.
I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine. |
Awesome feedback. Thank you.
He did get a good deal. 1990 MV, Southern van, fresh paint, no surface rust underneath. Needs a cleaning inside but serviceable for $5k with 500 miles on rebuilt manual trans and 150k on body and fresh Bilstens. |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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djkeev wrote: |
Any path you take will needs 1000's of $$'s in extra items to make a dependable unit. Hoses, pipes, fittings, radiator, etc.
You cannot simply reuse 30 year old stuff and expect good service from them.
Opt for the better stainless steel and aluminum options over plastic too.
Dave |
Sorry that was not clear. I plan to guide him through all the maintanence items to make a Vanagon reliable.. err more reliable. Fuel lines, etc ( they were leaking on the P.O.! ), all coolant hoses, coolant pipes, fittings, wheel bearings, alt, brakes, brake lines, radiator if it isn’t cooling well, thermostat and Cooling tower, etc.
When asking what would you do I was implying for the engine replacement.. |
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Marshj Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Update.
We went back to work and have the motor stripped down, disconnected and ready to drop. New life on its way. |
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michaelbteam Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2012 Posts: 232
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Re: this topic and "oil leak help;" why ask for sage advice and blithely dismiss it? I read many of these hoping to glean some wisdom that may offer future direction as needed. Very entertaining. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:30 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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People who give good advice don’t really care if you follow it, they don’t seek validation on the Internet because they own their expertise, and it isn’t diminished by sharing. _________________ .ssS! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2558 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:59 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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Marshj wrote: |
Exactly. That’s why he is leaning this way. We are 1:50 hrs from Bus Depot and can pick up, save on shipping core and refreshed block. http://www.busdepot.com/025100771
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the BusDepot engine drop ships from AVP in California, you aren't going to be able to pick it up in PA.
I suspect the rubber seal around the water jacket has failed and that is the source of the leaking coolant. Tear the engine down and assess the internals.
I rebuilt my engine this past winter and that was the easy part, dealing with the brittle wiring harness has been another story. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2558 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:10 am Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets |
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djkeev wrote: |
BEFORE you do anything.... it runs right?
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too late, stated the engine has been torn down is ready to be pulled. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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