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2.1 melted water Jackets
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Working on a 2.1 that a friend bought toasted. We were told it had 0 psi in 2 and 90 psi in 2. Turns out I put a different ECU in and it fired up. Has 120 all around.

The coolant pipe end blew out and it overheated and melted the wire and fried the ECU. With those all fixed it leaks water badly around the water jacket while under pressure and the coolant pressure tank is milky and smells of gas.

Deciding if it is worth doing the top end or taking it out and replacing with a Bus Depot rebuilt 2.1 for $2k. Seems like the work to replace the core would be similar to do the top end. Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.

What would you do?


Last edited by Marshj on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

There is visible signs of the water jacket being melted and other plastic components in the motor melted. The head bolts were finger tight from the change in clearences.
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Gauche1968
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Any pics of the damage?
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

No but it is leaking like a siv while under pressure. 1-2 cups a minute..

Would it make sense from the overheat the head bolts would be loose and if torqued correctly would reseal the jackets?

Not sure that is even the right direction, but the decent compression numbers and running behavior throws me off
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Here’s what my water jacket seal looked like when I took it out. Only leaked below freezing.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I replaced this with no issues for past couple years. Don’t forget core charge and shipping call and get a quote gta just quoted me 900 bucks shipping to Asheville on a transaxle mmmmkay looks like I’ll go local.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

a rebuilt for $2K?? cripes i had more than that into parts on my 2.1 and didn't even split the cases.

advise on a quality rebuild, like RMW or GoWesty and prepare the owner for sticker shock. otherwise YOU will be the bad guy forever.

there's WAY more to restoring a 30 year old vehicle for long family trips than a $2k rebuild.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Marshj wrote:
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.

What would you do?


No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.

Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.

I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine.
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
a rebuilt for $2K?? cripes i had more than that into parts on my 2.1 and didn't even split the cases.

advise on a quality rebuild, like RMW or GoWesty and prepare the owner for sticker shock. otherwise YOU will be the bad guy forever.

there's WAY more to restoring a 30 year old vehicle for long family trips than a $2k rebuild.


Exactly. That’s why he is leaning this way. We are 1:50 hrs from Bus Depot and can pick up, save on shipping core and refreshed block. http://www.busdepot.com/025100771

He was considering GoWesty, I would do RJE if going a premium route and suggested that. He weighed options and since his goal is 4-5 years then Subaru when he knows these vans better he wants to go BD rebuild route. We will be doing the work together as he learns.

I have revived two sleepers after 15 year field naps and had a 1,000 mile trip last weekend loaded with MTB gear for four and four adult males, and 750 the weekend before in 90 degree heat. I have 7k miles on this van since May. I understand what it takes to get these reliable.

Just trying to understand if it’s even worth putting energy into this top end with its water issues.
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
Marshj wrote:
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.

What would you do?


No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.

Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.

I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine.


Awesome feedback. Thank you.

He did get a good deal. 1990 MV, Southern van, fresh paint, no surface rust underneath. Needs a cleaning inside but serviceable for $5k with 500 miles on rebuilt manual trans and 150k on body and fresh Bilstens.
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
Marshj wrote:
...Friend wants to have the van for family road trips for a long time.

What would you do?


No need to hypothesize what I would do, I can tell you what I did do in that situation.

Put in a GoWesty 2.2L rebuild 13 years ago and have had no worries since.

I assume your friend got a very good deal on the 'toasted' van so hopefully he can splurge for a reliable engine.


Awesome feedback. Thank you.

He did get a good deal. 1990 MV, Southern van, fresh paint, no surface rust underneath. Needs a cleaning inside but serviceable for $5k with 500 miles on rebuilt manual trans and 150k on body and fresh Bilstens.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Any path you take will needs 1000's of $$'s in extra items to make a dependable unit. Hoses, pipes, fittings, radiator, etc.

You cannot simply reuse 30 year old stuff and expect good service from them.

Opt for the better stainless steel and aluminum options over plastic too.

Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Any path you take will needs 1000's of $$'s in extra items to make a dependable unit. Hoses, pipes, fittings, radiator, etc.

You cannot simply reuse 30 year old stuff and expect good service from them.

Opt for the better stainless steel and aluminum options over plastic too.

Dave


Sorry that was not clear. I plan to guide him through all the maintanence items to make a Vanagon reliable.. err more reliable. Fuel lines, etc ( they were leaking on the P.O.! ), all coolant hoses, coolant pipes, fittings, wheel bearings, alt, brakes, brake lines, radiator if it isn’t cooling well, thermostat and Cooling tower, etc.

When asking what would you do I was implying for the engine replacement..
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Marshj
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Update.

We went back to work and have the motor stripped down, disconnected and ready to drop. New life on its way.
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michaelbteam Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Re: this topic and "oil leak help;" why ask for sage advice and blithely dismiss it? I read many of these hoping to glean some wisdom that may offer future direction as needed. Very entertaining.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

People who give good advice don’t really care if you follow it, they don’t seek validation on the Internet because they own their expertise, and it isn’t diminished by sharing.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Bus Depot uses AVP Worldwide as their supplier.

I purchased rebuilt heads which I returned due to corroded spots being ignored. They had welded prime crack areas up making them beefier.

Some links.....
Not trying to sway you, just presenting experiences posted online.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2249273

https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=93040

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6264687

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7561352

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8773550

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3437455




Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert


Last edited by djkeev on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:28 am; edited 2 times in total
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dabaron
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Marshj wrote:


Exactly. That’s why he is leaning this way. We are 1:50 hrs from Bus Depot and can pick up, save on shipping core and refreshed block. http://www.busdepot.com/025100771


the BusDepot engine drop ships from AVP in California, you aren't going to be able to pick it up in PA.

I suspect the rubber seal around the water jacket has failed and that is the source of the leaking coolant. Tear the engine down and assess the internals.

I rebuilt my engine this past winter and that was the easy part, dealing with the brittle wiring harness has been another story.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

I agree, pull the engine and pull the heads, see what you've got.

But.....

BEFORE you do anything.... it runs right?
Hook up an oil pressure gauge and see what you've got, that will be an excellent guide about how far into a rebuild you should go.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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dabaron
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:


BEFORE you do anything.... it runs right?



too late, stated the engine has been torn down is ready to be pulled.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: 2.1 melted water Jackets Reply with quote

Oh well........ its all a giant crap shoot now.......

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
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