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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2288 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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You're very welcome. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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sdirghalli Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2008 Posts: 16 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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fxr wrote: |
I just interrupted the ground wiring right at the pump. I used a relay, whose coil used the +12V provided to the pump and was grounded via a simple slide switch, hidden in plain sight once the driver's door is opened.
Easily bypassed if you know how and if either the switch or relay plays up. I doubt a thief would go to the extent of grovelling on the ground and figuring out how to bypass it.
If you want a picture of the switch location, PM me.
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fxr, thanks for the assistance! A couple days ago I took your wiring diagram and installed a relay (I went with a "waterproof" one) and wired it between the pump and ground. For the switch, I continued to use the rear blower motor switch in the dash (I removed the rear heater years ago). It really was a simple process and I've got the switch hiding in plain sight so that if anyone tries to drive off in the van it'll die before they get it into first gear. I also wired in spade connectors so that if the relay fails I can quickly bypass it. Thanks again for your help! |
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surfinwesty Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2008 Posts: 310 Location: Petaluma, California
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Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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DeLvxe wrote: |
Following, for sure. |
Me, too! |
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newerwesty1987 Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2010 Posts: 407
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Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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Had more than one relay fail over the years, and each was a stock Hella made in Germany on various Euro cars.
It's also not just a relay being added, but additional connections as well.
Not convinced a relay is a good idea for this and can't imagine what the wiring harness has to do with it. Agree to disagree I guess. |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
He's connecting wires there and running them up to the front to an added switch.
Mark |
Gotcha, I didn't see that part.
Wouldn't it be easier to interrupt the ignition system near the column instead?
Carry on. _________________ 1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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He's connecting wires there and running them up to the front to an added switch.
Mark |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The purpose is to have a hidden switch near the driver so it can be turned on/off easily and without opening anything in the back.
Mark |
But if hes installing a switch at the relays, he has to get under the seat anyway unless he runs wiring all the way up front. Why not simply unplug either of the relays at that point?
Not trying to be argumentative, just don't understand why not keep it simple? _________________ 1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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The purpose is to have a hidden switch near the driver so it can be turned on/off easily and without opening anything in the back.
Mark |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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OR...just unplug the fuel pump power in the engine compartment...there should be a connector that you can just unplug and leave it looking like its still together.
OR...unplug the crank or cam sensor and leave the plug stuck in place, OR the ignitor, etc. etc.
OR...unplug the ignition or fuel pump relay?
Why bother with all the wire hacking when this can be achieved so easily with any of these methods. _________________ 1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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From mid 86 on there is a wiring harness change that I find advantageous for adding the relay. It is a small thing.
Mark |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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Ok thanks, why the difference from 87 on? |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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You don't need a relay. As long as the switch is rated for the job by a considerable margin it should be fine. There are lots of small switches that wouldn't be suitable for direct pump power but that would be fine with the relay. Either way, doesn't matter to me. For 87 and later I'd use a relay for sure.
Mark |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2015 Posts: 704 Location: Berkeley Ca
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
A relay isn't complicated or failure prone. Most of our 30-40 year old vans still have all or most of the original relays, working fine. Don't use no-name crap from you know where and that goes for the switch you prefer to use as well.
Mark |
Thanks Mark. Just to clarify. You gave me a hard time about this before. For us who know less about electrical things, if one were to use a switch correctly sized for the load to discontinue the circuit for the ground path, that would be fine, correct?
The advantage of using a relay would be that the trigger could be of less amperage, so switch and wireing could be sized accordingly.
We're I am having a conceptual issue is that how big does the switch and wireing need to be for fuel pump? And does it really warrant having a relay. For example wouldn't a fog light switch be sufficient? |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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A relay isn't complicated or failure prone. Most of our 30-40 year old vans still have all or most of the original relays, working fine. Don't use no-name crap from you know where and that goes for the switch you prefer to use as well.
Mark |
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newerwesty1987 Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2010 Posts: 407
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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My point was missed. Relay's aren't needed for the small draw of the fuel pump, unless like was said you want to route it far away with tiny wires, but even then, it's probably not needed.
My main point is that you are introducing yet another failure point to an already complex set-up full of relays and old electronics. The last thing I want is another relay to worry about way in the back of my mind.
My kill switch will be the most bluntly simple thing; a simple SPST switch.
KISS! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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A properly installed time dependent relay will allow a potential thief to start the engine and pull out in traffic and then have the engine die. He is not apt to stick around at this point trying to figure out why the engine suddenly quit on him. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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Yes, adding a relay for this lets you choose from a wider array of switches and switch locations, as well as only needing a single very small wire to do the job on a long wire run.
A typical relay might need roughly a tenth of an amp to activate but can switch 100+ times that much.
Mark |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2288 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Why do you say that the amp load won't be an issue?
The exact same amps flow through the pump ground wire as through the pump power wire. The added switch and ground wiring need to be sized for that load.
Mark
newerwesty1987 wrote: |
Thanks, but, why not just switch the ground with the switch? The amp load wouldn't be an issue and it would make it more simple. |
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Just that, indeed. I much prefer using a small switch and thinner wire which are OK for up to 1 or 2A rather than parts rated for 10A. A 10A switch for an inductive load is quite large in comparison to the small slide switch I used. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9889 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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Why do you say that the amp load won't be an issue?
The exact same amps flow through the pump ground wire as through the pump power wire. The added switch and ground wiring need to be sized for that load.
Mark
newerwesty1987 wrote: |
Thanks, but, why not just switch the ground with the switch? The amp load wouldn't be an issue and it would make it more simple. |
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drj434343 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2016 Posts: 397 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question |
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I have two kill switches in two different vans both directly connected to the pump ground. I've been using them daily for years without any issues. No relays, just switches directly in line with the pump chassis ground, sometimes extending the ground path length by 30 ft (to and from the switch). |
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