Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
fxr
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 959
Location: Bay area CA
fxr is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

You're very welcome. Smile
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sdirghalli
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Long Beach, CA
sdirghalli is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
I just interrupted the ground wiring right at the pump. I used a relay, whose coil used the +12V provided to the pump and was grounded via a simple slide switch, hidden in plain sight once the driver's door is opened.

Easily bypassed if you know how and if either the switch or relay plays up. I doubt a thief would go to the extent of grovelling on the ground and figuring out how to bypass it. Wink

If you want a picture of the switch location, PM me.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


fxr, thanks for the assistance! A couple days ago I took your wiring diagram and installed a relay (I went with a "waterproof" one) and wired it between the pump and ground. For the switch, I continued to use the rear blower motor switch in the dash (I removed the rear heater years ago). It really was a simple process and I've got the switch hiding in plain sight so that if anyone tries to drive off in the van it'll die before they get it into first gear. I also wired in spade connectors so that if the relay fails I can quickly bypass it. Thanks again for your help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
surfinwesty
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2008
Posts: 290
Location: Berkeley, California
surfinwesty is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

DeLvxe wrote:
Following, for sure.


Me, too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newerwesty1987
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2010
Posts: 335

newerwesty1987 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

Had more than one relay fail over the years, and each was a stock Hella made in Germany on various Euro cars.

It's also not just a relay being added, but additional connections as well.

Not convinced a relay is a good idea for this and can't imagine what the wiring harness has to do with it. Agree to disagree I guess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalispell365
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 877
Location: PNW
kalispell365 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
He's connecting wires there and running them up to the front to an added switch.

Mark


Gotcha, I didn't see that part.

Wouldn't it be easier to interrupt the ignition system near the column instead?

Carry on.
_________________
1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

He's connecting wires there and running them up to the front to an added switch.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalispell365
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 877
Location: PNW
kalispell365 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
The purpose is to have a hidden switch near the driver so it can be turned on/off easily and without opening anything in the back.

Mark


But if hes installing a switch at the relays, he has to get under the seat anyway unless he runs wiring all the way up front. Why not simply unplug either of the relays at that point?

Not trying to be argumentative, just don't understand why not keep it simple?
_________________
1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

The purpose is to have a hidden switch near the driver so it can be turned on/off easily and without opening anything in the back.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kalispell365
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2010
Posts: 877
Location: PNW
kalispell365 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

OR...just unplug the fuel pump power in the engine compartment...there should be a connector that you can just unplug and leave it looking like its still together.

OR...unplug the crank or cam sensor and leave the plug stuck in place, OR the ignitor, etc. etc.

OR...unplug the ignition or fuel pump relay?

Why bother with all the wire hacking when this can be achieved so easily with any of these methods.
_________________
1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

From mid 86 on there is a wiring harness change that I find advantageous for adding the relay. It is a small thing.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
[email protected]
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2015
Posts: 650
Location: Berkeley Ca
ahmed.aboudan@gmail.com is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

Ok thanks, why the difference from 87 on?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

You don't need a relay. As long as the switch is rated for the job by a considerable margin it should be fine. There are lots of small switches that wouldn't be suitable for direct pump power but that would be fine with the relay. Either way, doesn't matter to me. For 87 and later I'd use a relay for sure.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
[email protected]
Samba Member


Joined: April 29, 2015
Posts: 650
Location: Berkeley Ca
ahmed.aboudan@gmail.com is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
A relay isn't complicated or failure prone. Most of our 30-40 year old vans still have all or most of the original relays, working fine. Don't use no-name crap from you know where and that goes for the switch you prefer to use as well.

Mark


Thanks Mark. Just to clarify. You gave me a hard time about this before. For us who know less about electrical things, if one were to use a switch correctly sized for the load to discontinue the circuit for the ground path, that would be fine, correct?

The advantage of using a relay would be that the trigger could be of less amperage, so switch and wireing could be sized accordingly.

We're I am having a conceptual issue is that how big does the switch and wireing need to be for fuel pump? And does it really warrant having a relay. For example wouldn't a fog light switch be sufficient?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

A relay isn't complicated or failure prone. Most of our 30-40 year old vans still have all or most of the original relays, working fine. Don't use no-name crap from you know where and that goes for the switch you prefer to use as well.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
newerwesty1987
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2010
Posts: 335

newerwesty1987 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

My point was missed. Relay's aren't needed for the small draw of the fuel pump, unless like was said you want to route it far away with tiny wires, but even then, it's probably not needed.

My main point is that you are introducing yet another failure point to an already complex set-up full of relays and old electronics. The last thing I want is another relay to worry about way in the back of my mind.

My kill switch will be the most bluntly simple thing; a simple SPST switch.

KISS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 42074

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

A properly installed time dependent relay will allow a potential thief to start the engine and pull out in traffic and then have the engine die. He is not apt to stick around at this point trying to figure out why the engine suddenly quit on him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

Yes, adding a relay for this lets you choose from a wider array of switches and switch locations, as well as only needing a single very small wire to do the job on a long wire run.

A typical relay might need roughly a tenth of an amp to activate but can switch 100+ times that much.

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fxr
Samba Member


Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 959
Location: Bay area CA
fxr is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Why do you say that the amp load won't be an issue?
The exact same amps flow through the pump ground wire as through the pump power wire. The added switch and ground wiring need to be sized for that load.

Mark

newerwesty1987 wrote:
Thanks, but, why not just switch the ground with the switch? The amp load wouldn't be an issue and it would make it more simple.

Just that, indeed. I much prefer using a small switch and thinner wire which are OK for up to 1 or 2A rather than parts rated for 10A. A 10A switch for an inductive load is quite large in comparison to the small slide switch I used.
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 8295
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

Why do you say that the amp load won't be an issue?
The exact same amps flow through the pump ground wire as through the pump power wire. The added switch and ground wiring need to be sized for that load.

Mark

newerwesty1987 wrote:
Thanks, but, why not just switch the ground with the switch? The amp load wouldn't be an issue and it would make it more simple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drj434343
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2016
Posts: 317
Location: Portland, OR
drj434343 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ22 kill switch wiring question Reply with quote

I have two kill switches in two different vans both directly connected to the pump ground. I've been using them daily for years without any issues. No relays, just switches directly in line with the pump chassis ground, sometimes extending the ground path length by 30 ft (to and from the switch).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB