Factory Blocking Plate in Heaterbox |
Leave it in, it’s factory |
|
66% |
[ 2 ] |
Lose it, you don’t need it anymore |
|
33% |
[ 1 ] |
|
Total Votes : 3 |
|
Author |
Message |
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
Next month I’m tackling the Dash and rebuilding the heater.
I’ve heard and read thoughts on the heater blocking plate that VW installed.
So, leave it in, or remove it while I’m in there?
As a FYI, I’ll be installing Chris C’s manual intake air flap system while I’m at it, so if that affects your thoughts on that plate for RAM air at higher speed driving, I’m letting everyone know I will gain that option with his Kit. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4580 Location: New Hampshire
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
I read that thread awhile ago. I was wondering if anyone had regretted NOT removing the plate with some time gone by, OR, regretted removing it.
Between Tencentlife's posts and a few others about the possilibity of negative pressure helping a set of flaps in the heater box, it's some interesting reading, even for the second time...
However, with a manual Intake air shut off installed, I'll be controlling that incoming air as I want or need to, so I don't see the need for the plate anymore. That will stop the overcooling of the heater core at high speeds that some people who removed their plate complained about. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4580 Location: New Hampshire
|
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
I know we have a love/hate relationship with the Wolfsburg engineers. But look at what they created and how in spite of all odds, we have kept them going. Which means, for the most part they knew what they were doing. So putting in a baffle plate made sense to them and for millions of T3 drivers, it has been just fine. One of the HVAC complaints which seems to be fairly universal is the complexity of the four levers to control heat and distribution. With another lever to control the air inlet, you now have 5 levers. Trying to feather the amount of air coming over the heater core and adjusting everything seems like it's just adding complexity. I agree that blocking the air inlet off is a good idea, but why feel the need to remove the baffle if no air is going to be going over the core any way? I'd leave it in and go enjoy the van. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
DuncanS wrote: |
I know we have a love/hate relationship with the Wolfsburg engineers. But look at what they created and how in spite of all odds, we have kept them going. Which means, for the most part they knew what they were doing. So putting in a baffle plate made sense to them and for millions of T3 drivers, it has been just fine. One of the HVAC complaints which seems to be fairly universal is the complexity of the four levers to control heat and distribution. With another lever to control the air inlet, you now have 5 levers. Trying to feather the amount of air coming over the heater core and adjusting everything seems like it's just adding complexity. I agree that blocking the air inlet off is a good idea, but why feel the need to remove the baffle if no air is going to be going over the core any way? I'd leave it in and go enjoy the van. |
. All I’m doing is adding a Recirculating Ability that the Vanagons never had. By closing off ambient air flow, my A/C system, once I get it sorted out, will work easier with no constant hot air blowing in from the intake to upset the cooling. Separate knob on the dash, no big whoop....
Winter Driving, I rarely use recirc in my ‘modern’ vehicles unless the temps get well below zero. We got down to -23 F this past winter, using Recirc was the only way I got real heat out of my Mini Cooper Clubman while on the highway, and it’s only 2 years old.....
The airflow improvement across the heater core for many people who have removed the baffle plate is tempered by people who post their overall coolant temps from the engine suffered with a highway ram air heater core not having that baffle.
The Vanistan Kit should balance all that out.
It would be interesting to hear from a Canadian owner who installed the Vanistan Kit and has weathered a couple of Canada Winters with it. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4580 Location: New Hampshire
|
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
OK, I'm a bit confused here. I have a complete front heater air handling unit in my garage overhead and could get the ladder and climb up and check it out, but........ My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true? If the blower air doesn't go through the baffle and the ram air is shut off, what advantage is there from removing the baffle?
If the blower air goes through the baffle, then maybe a sliding plate with could open more area, but be closed if the front blower is not used. I live in mid New Hampshire and my front blower bearings are gone and the motor runs, but the wobbling shaft makes a 120db rattling. At slowest speed, sortta useable. Need to pull the dash, but.......... Anyhoo, the point here is that with the rear heater going at least for start up, I don't have any problem with cabin heat until I get down to about 10º. No outside air vent blocking capability, but I do want to get one of Vanistan's kits.
Dave is one of the most knowledgeable people on this area. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822 Haven't read the whole topic recently, but I don't remember any talk about the baffle and he was happy with his block off solution.
And here is a forum topic about the whole thing with actual tests. Need to reread the whole topic as cold weather is probably going to show up at some point here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
DuncanS wrote: |
OK, I'm a bit confused here. I have a complete front heater air handling unit in my garage overhead and could get the ladder and climb up and check it out, but........ My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true? If the blower air doesn't go through the baffle and the ram air is shut off, what advantage is there from removing the baffle?
If the blower air goes through the baffle, then maybe a sliding plate with could open more area, but be closed if the front blower is not used. I live in mid New Hampshire and my front blower bearings are gone and the motor runs, but the wobbling shaft makes a 120db rattling. At slowest speed, sortta useable. Need to pull the dash, but.......... Anyhoo, the point here is that with the rear heater going at least for start up, I don't have any problem with cabin heat until I get down to about 10º. No outside air vent blocking capability, but I do want to get one of Vanistan's kits.
Dave is one of the most knowledgeable people on this area. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822 Haven't read the whole topic recently, but I don't remember any talk about the baffle and he was happy with his block off solution.
And here is a forum topic about the whole thing with actual tests. Need to reread the whole topic as cold weather is probably going to show up at some point here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
Stock heaterbox will use the baffle differently than Vanistans’ Kit, which adds a flap to allow interior air back into the blower motor once the outside air is shut closed when you move your cable.
It’s my understanding that a stock baffle, with the blower at high speed setting, moved a flap by way of negative pressure to change air flow , unlike the Vanistan kit which is modifying the box from stock two different ways.
Go to Chris’s Website for a more detailed explanation if any posts on the kit here on Samba leave you with a few questions. Here is a picture of the Added Flap that will allow the Blower Motor to recirc the interior air once you've shut off the Outside Flap.
https://intrepidoverland.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/image3-510x382.jpeg
As a complete aside, old BMW 7 series , E-23 body, would limit intake air via a two stage vacuum motor at the Front cowlings that didn’t allow more movement until the engine coolant got warm enough.
They then carried this feature forward with the fully electric heater systems a few years later, limiting Vent selection AND Blower speed until the coolant reached a minimum level of temperature .
Basically, you got Defrost only by default, and liked it.... Until your engine warmed up _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
|
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate |
|
|
Quote: |
My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true?
|
It is very much not true, but then you know what happens when you assume.
In any of the watercooled HV boxes, the perforated plate covers almost the entire output side of the heater core and reduces the total aperture area to maybe 30% at most. All air, whether ram-inducted or fan-induced, that goes to the defrost and footwell vents, and to the dash end vents on late models, first passes thru the heater core regardless of the heater valve position. Removing the perf plate allows a lot more air to pass thru the heater core, so whether it's being heated or not, a lot more air volume can flow to those vents, plain and simple. With the perf plate gone the potential air volume is greater, and when there's an intake closure it becomes easy to regulate the total volume of air passing thru the whole system in ways that were impossible without it.
The only air volume that does not pass thru the heater core is what is allowed to flow to the rear overhead ducts and vents if one opens the bottom control lever, and to the dash end vents up to around '87 or '88. The dash end vent configuration, though, is easy to change because the hose spigots for heated and non-heated air are both there on both ends of the HV box, so you can cut out the blocked one, swap the duct hoses over and block the now-unused one. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|