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Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate
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Factory Blocking Plate in Heaterbox
Leave it in, it’s factory
66%
 66%  [ 2 ]
Lose it, you don’t need it anymore
33%
 33%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 3

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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

Next month I’m tackling the Dash and rebuilding the heater.
I’ve heard and read thoughts on the heater blocking plate that VW installed.
So, leave it in, or remove it while I’m in there?
As a FYI, I’ll be installing Chris C’s manual intake air flap system while I’m at it, so if that affects your thoughts on that plate for RAM air at higher speed driving, I’m letting everyone know I will gain that option with his Kit.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

Check with Chris too.
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

There is a lot of posting on this issue.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5059437
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
There is a lot of posting on this issue.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5059437
I read that thread awhile ago. I was wondering if anyone had regretted NOT removing the plate with some time gone by, OR, regretted removing it.
Between Tencentlife's posts and a few others about the possilibity of negative pressure helping a set of flaps in the heater box, it's some interesting reading, even for the second time... Razz
However, with a manual Intake air shut off installed, I'll be controlling that incoming air as I want or need to, so I don't see the need for the plate anymore. That will stop the overcooling of the heater core at high speeds that some people who removed their plate complained about.
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

I know we have a love/hate relationship with the Wolfsburg engineers. But look at what they created and how in spite of all odds, we have kept them going. Which means, for the most part they knew what they were doing. So putting in a baffle plate made sense to them and for millions of T3 drivers, it has been just fine. One of the HVAC complaints which seems to be fairly universal is the complexity of the four levers to control heat and distribution. With another lever to control the air inlet, you now have 5 levers. Trying to feather the amount of air coming over the heater core and adjusting everything seems like it's just adding complexity. I agree that blocking the air inlet off is a good idea, but why feel the need to remove the baffle if no air is going to be going over the core any way? I'd leave it in and go enjoy the van.
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
I know we have a love/hate relationship with the Wolfsburg engineers. But look at what they created and how in spite of all odds, we have kept them going. Which means, for the most part they knew what they were doing. So putting in a baffle plate made sense to them and for millions of T3 drivers, it has been just fine. One of the HVAC complaints which seems to be fairly universal is the complexity of the four levers to control heat and distribution. With another lever to control the air inlet, you now have 5 levers. Trying to feather the amount of air coming over the heater core and adjusting everything seems like it's just adding complexity. I agree that blocking the air inlet off is a good idea, but why feel the need to remove the baffle if no air is going to be going over the core any way? I'd leave it in and go enjoy the van.
. All I’m doing is adding a Recirculating Ability that the Vanagons never had. By closing off ambient air flow, my A/C system, once I get it sorted out, will work easier with no constant hot air blowing in from the intake to upset the cooling. Separate knob on the dash, no big whoop....


Winter Driving, I rarely use recirc in my ‘modern’ vehicles unless the temps get well below zero. We got down to -23 F this past winter, using Recirc was the only way I got real heat out of my Mini Cooper Clubman while on the highway, and it’s only 2 years old..... Shocked

The airflow improvement across the heater core for many people who have removed the baffle plate is tempered by people who post their overall coolant temps from the engine suffered with a highway ram air heater core not having that baffle.
The Vanistan Kit should balance all that out.
It would be interesting to hear from a Canadian owner who installed the Vanistan Kit and has weathered a couple of Canada Winters with it.
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'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
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‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

OK, I'm a bit confused here. I have a complete front heater air handling unit in my garage overhead and could get the ladder and climb up and check it out, but........ My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true? If the blower air doesn't go through the baffle and the ram air is shut off, what advantage is there from removing the baffle?

If the blower air goes through the baffle, then maybe a sliding plate with could open more area, but be closed if the front blower is not used. I live in mid New Hampshire and my front blower bearings are gone and the motor runs, but the wobbling shaft makes a 120db rattling. At slowest speed, sortta useable. Need to pull the dash, but.......... Anyhoo, the point here is that with the rear heater going at least for start up, I don't have any problem with cabin heat until I get down to about 10º. No outside air vent blocking capability, but I do want to get one of Vanistan's kits.

Dave is one of the most knowledgeable people on this area. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822 Haven't read the whole topic recently, but I don't remember any talk about the baffle and he was happy with his block off solution.
And here is a forum topic about the whole thing with actual tests. Need to reread the whole topic as cold weather is probably going to show up at some point here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

As mentioned, I did redesign my entire airbox flow pattern with a ram air shut off before the Vanistan kit became available.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822

I am more than thrilled with the air control I gained, temperature mixing, ram air control, recirculation and air flow direction control I accomplished.

It was a lot of work. With Vanistans kit now available I'd need to think hard if I would do it again.
My design did provide 100% ram air shut off.

For the record, my baffle plate was not reinstalled. The heat I had available could roast us out, worst condition was in -9° F.

Dave
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
OK, I'm a bit confused here. I have a complete front heater air handling unit in my garage overhead and could get the ladder and climb up and check it out, but........ My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true? If the blower air doesn't go through the baffle and the ram air is shut off, what advantage is there from removing the baffle?

If the blower air goes through the baffle, then maybe a sliding plate with could open more area, but be closed if the front blower is not used. I live in mid New Hampshire and my front blower bearings are gone and the motor runs, but the wobbling shaft makes a 120db rattling. At slowest speed, sortta useable. Need to pull the dash, but.......... Anyhoo, the point here is that with the rear heater going at least for start up, I don't have any problem with cabin heat until I get down to about 10º. No outside air vent blocking capability, but I do want to get one of Vanistan's kits.

Dave is one of the most knowledgeable people on this area. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822 Haven't read the whole topic recently, but I don't remember any talk about the baffle and he was happy with his block off solution.
And here is a forum topic about the whole thing with actual tests. Need to reread the whole topic as cold weather is probably going to show up at some point here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Stock heaterbox will use the baffle differently than Vanistans’ Kit, which adds a flap to allow interior air back into the blower motor once the outside air is shut closed when you move your cable.
It’s my understanding that a stock baffle, with the blower at high speed setting, moved a flap by way of negative pressure to change air flow , unlike the Vanistan kit which is modifying the box from stock two different ways.

Go to Chris’s Website for a more detailed explanation if any posts on the kit here on Samba leave you with a few questions. Here is a picture of the Added Flap that will allow the Blower Motor to recirc the interior air once you've shut off the Outside Flap.

https://intrepidoverland.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/image3-510x382.jpeg



As a complete aside, old BMW 7 series , E-23 body, would limit intake air via a two stage vacuum motor at the Front cowlings that didn’t allow more movement until the engine coolant got warm enough.
They then carried this feature forward with the fully electric heater systems a few years later, limiting Vent selection AND Blower speed until the coolant reached a minimum level of temperature .
Basically, you got Defrost only by default, and liked it.... Razz Until your engine warmed up
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Current thoughts on the Heater Blocking Plate Reply with quote

Quote:
My assumption was that the only air that had to go through the baffle was the outside ram air. Is this not true?


It is very much not true, but then you know what happens when you assume.

In any of the watercooled HV boxes, the perforated plate covers almost the entire output side of the heater core and reduces the total aperture area to maybe 30% at most. All air, whether ram-inducted or fan-induced, that goes to the defrost and footwell vents, and to the dash end vents on late models, first passes thru the heater core regardless of the heater valve position. Removing the perf plate allows a lot more air to pass thru the heater core, so whether it's being heated or not, a lot more air volume can flow to those vents, plain and simple. With the perf plate gone the potential air volume is greater, and when there's an intake closure it becomes easy to regulate the total volume of air passing thru the whole system in ways that were impossible without it.

The only air volume that does not pass thru the heater core is what is allowed to flow to the rear overhead ducts and vents if one opens the bottom control lever, and to the dash end vents up to around '87 or '88. The dash end vent configuration, though, is easy to change because the hose spigots for heated and non-heated air are both there on both ends of the HV box, so you can cut out the blocked one, swap the duct hoses over and block the now-unused one.
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