| Author |
Message |
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:53 am Post subject: New Throttle Body, High Idle speed .... SOLVED |
 |
|
I've been battling a sticky throttle body that rarely returned to a full closed position and hung open a tad.
My out of gear (automatic transmission) idle speed was typically at 2600 rpm or so.
I could blip the gas pedal and sometimes it would go to idle speed, sometimes not.
I tired of this nonsense and ordered the GoWesty throttle body, a thing of beauty for sure but it has its problems when used for the automatics..... which I won't go into here.
Now that my throttle consistently returns to fully closed idle, every time I take my foot off of the gas pedal it happily returns to idle speed.
Well...... let us rephrase that, the throttle plate consistently closes every time I lift my foot from the gas pedal.
The idle speed returning to normal?
Most of the time.
It will return to idle consistently time and time again.
Until......
It doesn't.
From my limited test driving thus far with the new throttle body This seems to be happening after I turn the engine off and then do a hot restart.
Once it starts, it keeps happening.
It isn't the throttle plate hanging up, it is the idle control system saying.....
"hey! We used to idle at this speed all the time! Let's do it again!"
If I open the engine lid and unplug the idle speed control valve ..... BAM! The idle settles right down into a 950 rpm idle.
Just scratching my head...... thinking.......
Why does this happen after a hot restart and works fine when started cold?
I guess that I should not do short stops, I should plan to stay awhile..... not just refuel and go....... pretend I have an electric car and need to kill an hour or two while I refuel......
My Niece has my spare Idle control relay in Tacoma........ I'm going to reach out to her and have her send it to me for testing.
I'm wondering if something gets hot in that black box?
I could leave the system unplugged....... but that's not how I typically roll.
Any ideas of what is going awry in the idle control system?
1990 2.1 Automatic, Air Conditioning, Power Steering
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17121
Location: Retired South Florida
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 5:00 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
Have you tried cleaning the valve with some carb cleaner or engine top end cleaner? If not, try that, but remove the valve from the intake. I had an Audi 5000 turbo years ago. I ended up putting a wooden dowel in one of the hoses and drilling it till I was satisfied with the idle. Money was tight in those days.
There is also a thread where a member is making and selling a replacement controller. Seemed pretty interesting.
_________________
☮️ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:57 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
| MarkWard wrote: |
Have you tried cleaning the valve with some carb cleaner or engine top end cleaner? If not, try that, but remove the valve from the intake. I had an Audi 5000 turbo years ago. I ended up putting a wooden dowel in one of the hoses and drilling it till I was satisfied with the idle. Money was tight in those days.
There is also a thread where a member is making and selling a replacement controller. Seemed pretty interesting. |
I'll try cleaning the valve but have my doubts.
It seems to work fine until the key is turned off and restarted.
I feel that this issue has been here for a long time, just masked by a sticking throttle valve.
This problem may explain why blipping the pedal would not always result in a lower idle speed.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ragnarhairybreeks
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009
Posts: 1890
Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:52 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
I’ll ask the obvious question. Have you set the idle speed according to Bentley procedure after the new TB installed?
Alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:00 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
Dave, You said “idle speed control valve” I’m not familiar with this part and don’t have a Bentley handy 
I keep thinking of an Idle air control valve. Do you have a picture of the part you are having trouble with?
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6543
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:35 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
Wondering the same thing but think he means “idle stabilizer.”
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4777
Location: Bemidji, MN
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:47 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
| ragnarhairybreeks wrote: |
I’ll ask the obvious question. Have you set the idle speed according to Bentley procedure after the new TB installed?
Alistair |
since Dave said the idle speed is 950 with the valve unplugged, this suggests the idle stabilizer current has NOT been set. when properly set, the unplugged valve idle speed is LESS than the desired target idle speed in order for the valve to open bypass air and control the idle.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7917
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:02 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
Yes, I mean the air valve.
Which is clean as a whistle before I even cleaned it... |
Probably not the source of the issue, and perhaps a stupid question, but what did the inside of the ISV look like, and did you thoroughly clean the inside (applying 12V to open it)?
Considering this is temperature related, have you tested/replaced the Temp II sensor?
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32592
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:16 am Post subject: Re: New Parts...... New Problems |
|
|
I am happy to report that my high idle speed has been solved.
I first made my TPS test harness ....
Before adjusting the Idle Speed I verified that the Throttle Valve initial plate stop setting was correct and that the TPS worked within specs at idle.
The TPS should be closed at Idle, (foot off pedal, throttle plate closed.)
There is a measurement taken at the throttle plate stop screw.
If the Stop Screw is .05mm off the stop, the TPS switch should be closed (measure with an Ohm meter or listen for the click, ohm meter is preferred)
When the Stop Screw is .10mm off the stop the TPS should be open.
.07mm is the ideal zone for the on/off taking place.
I had to adjust my new one because the TPS wouldn't close except by holding it wide open and letting it snap shut or by moving the lever really hard towards the closed position.
By following the Idle Speed Adjustment instructions in the Digifant ProTraining Manual I now have a consistent Idle.
I first, with the engine and key OFF, unplugged the Oxygen Sensor. Thid lets the ECU forget previously set Idle Speed information.
Start up the Engine and let it come up to operating temperature but not so warm that the Radiator cooling fan is running.
I used my VW 1315A (from SnapOn Tools) plugged into the Idle Air Control Valve to measure the milliamps as the engine was running as I adjusted the milliamp reading and idle speed by using the big screw on the Throttle Valve Body.
I shut off the engine, removed the VW1315A adapter and plugged in the oxygen sensor.
The Idle Control System learned a new Idle Speed.
I'm happier with this Throttle Body now but I'm still chasing some demons trying to wrestle it into proper operation in the full range of motion.
I'm suspecting worn linkage ......
More info here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=60
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
