67 seat belt weave?

[harrymarlin]

I'm investigating replacement seat belt webbing for the front seatbelts of my 1967 Beetle, however I no longer have the original webbing. If you still have yours, could you post a close up picture of your front seat belt webbing? Multiple angles (showing depth) would also be great. Thanks for your help!!

- Harry
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[Jos.Hall]

Harry, sorry these pictures suck but I just got home from work was/am exhausted and took them in the dark quick. I’ll get better ones in the next day or so and upload them.

[harrymarlin]

Thanks, Jos! These look like great pictures. I'll post what I find out!
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[KTPhil]

Keep in mind the material, weave, and sewing for seat belts is a science, with the right combination of strength and stretch. Generally not for the novice to try! There are good vintage-looking (and modern 3-point inertial) belts available.

[harrymarlin]

[Digger89L]

Not saying its the best way to go ...but I know people who have got 'bulk' seat belt material from new cars at the wrecking yard (new, modern, stronger (?) belt material) and then had a shoe-repair shop (yes ....there's still a few around) custom sew them to match the sewing on older belts from vintage cars. I supposed this post will cause a sh*t-storm of NO NO NO ....but....
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"If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken."

[harrymarlin]

[Digger89L]

That's 1.
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"If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken."

[67ctbug]

[clarkster75]

Have you ever had original 67 belts on while driving the car? IMHO. Get some standard lap belts. The 67 style is uncomfortable. Every time you hit a bump the ratchet goes up one more notch. After about 5 miles you need to take the belt off to keep blood flowing to your legs.
The plastic housing gets dirty/brown/yellow too. Just overall, not a good design.
I get the "original" part, but if you are going to drive it, just standard belts are best.

[Jos.Hall]

Guys if he wanted to he could just buy some seat belts of CIP or WW or wherever and go on with his day. The goal isn't just to have a seat belt but rather to have as close or exact to the original seat belt as possible while maintaining enough safety to take the family for a drive.

The common thought is that the weaving of a 50 year old lap belt is compromised due to age. I'm not sure where I stand on it yet but I get it. Harry's goal and my goal is not to just go online to WW or another retailer and click add to cart but rather find NOS and/or Mint original parts to build the most accurate beetle that we can. To have it exactly as it was when it drove off the showroom. (although I must admit mine wont be exact )

[Jos.Hall]

Harry, you ready for this?..... I scored 6 '67 seat belts (albiet not convertible belts) this weekend.

I've known of two different types of '67 sedan belts in the past but I've discovered there's at least 3 different variations if not more. Not only are there 3 different "sheaths" but theres also 3 different belts.

Pebble weave in Grey
Ladder weave in Grey
Ladder weave in Black

Here's a photo of the 3 different sheaths they're in just for further documentation

Note how the far right has no ribbing and the left belt has smaller ribbing than that of the middle.

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[harrymarlin]

[dustymojave]

The major concern for driving a car with 50 to 60 year old seat belts is not whether they are "just like off the showroom floor". It's whether they are actually going to protect you from harm in the case someone else on the road does something stupid (like THAT never happens...Right?)

NOS 1967 belts are still 53 years old and the material is dramatically weaker than it was in 1966 or 67. I spent 11 years on plastic industry R&D doing research on material strengths and deterioration under exposure to various environmental factors.

If you want a museum piece. keep it in the museum. If you want to actually drive it, make it safe. Don't be stupid. Belts from a wrecking yard re-stitched with polyester thread on original hardware would be vastly safer than NOS '67 belts that have been sitting on a shelf in a parts department under fluorescent lights (that put out more UV light than direct sunlight) slowly deteriorating.

My own '67 Bug had belts just like the pebble grain ones at the left in the pictures above. I replaced them nearly 30 years ago because the Bug was a daily driver and I did not trust the original belts anymore. Lucky I did. Because a few months later, some fool woman backed out of a blind driveway at Warp 3 into the side of my pretty little Bug, leaving it totalled with the whole right side caved in about a foot. I was not injured other than losing my Bug. I'm not sure I would have come out of it so well with the original belts still in it. The original lobster claws were pretty sketchy regardless of the condition of the belt fabric and stitching.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[bluebus86]

Are there documented cases of old belts failing in crashes?

I survived several crashes with 30 plus year old belts, no belt fails

Bug On Safely!
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[harrymarlin]

I agree - I do not trust 50 year old seat belts for my safety (whether or not they are actually safe is another conversation - or if they are safe in a car with a gas tank in the crumple zone...). That's why I started this - I wanted to find a modern replacement.

And I found one pretty similar for both the pebble and ladder patterns. The (un)fortunate part is that, I believe due to regulations, US seat belts all pretty much look the same with the same material. That is not as true in Europe. A company called FDTS (fdts-seatbelts.co.uk) had a close match in both the gray ladder for my front seatbelts and the black pebble I was using in my rear seat belts.

I am sending the seatbelts off to SafetyRestore (SafetyRestore.com - I've used them before) to reweb my current seatbelts with this new material. I'll post pictures when it is done (I'm still waiting for the original hardware to come back from chrome and plating).

Now, whether the lobster claw mechanism is originally reliable is another question...
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia

[Eric&Barb]

[harrymarlin]