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Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose?
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Bad idea?
....trying to remove my brake drum, noticed the 46mm axle nut is loose.... is it a bad idea to hammer on the drum while 46mm nut is still loose?
I dont yet have the tool to tighten it......
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90Doka_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Since the nut is loose, rather than beating on it I would consider removing the nut and pulling the hub and drum off as a whole. You can then take the assembly to a press and pop them apart in a more controlled manner.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

90Doka_Guy wrote:
Since the nut is loose, rather than beating on it I would consider removing the nut and pulling the hub and drum off as a whole. You can then take the assembly to a press and pop them apart in a more controlled manner.


^^^^^^
This

Can't think of the last time I tried to remove the drum from the hub with the hub still on the axle. Can't replace the outer rear wheel seal or even remove and install the shoes as easily with the hub installed so why not remove it.

Note that if the hub is loose on the axle, you may have some wear problems with either or both the axle or the hub. The play between the two should be very minimal.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Get some penetrating oil on the axle/drum hole at the center.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

It’s way easier to redo the rear brakes with the hub off, but normally not worth the effort of removing the hub. Inspect the hub splines. They may be beat from driving around with the nut loose.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

IdahoDoug wrote:
Get some penetrating oil on the axle/drum hole at the center.


This or heat it put some ice bags on it and hit it with a torch after it cools a bit usually just pops right off.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

The area where the drum is sticky is where the hub penetrates the big hole in the drum. Use a little heat on the drum in that area and it should let go.

You do need to address the loose nut and inspect the splines too though.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

I think the 46mm nut was not actually "loose" (flopping)... I put pen.oil to loosen everything else and decided also to put some on the 46mm nut for future ease, but then when I started hammering on the drum the 46mm nut came loose... so I think previously it was just bearly "tight enough"... also, it was driving fine. So probably I'm OK.

But yes, while it is loose I might as well take advantage of that and do whatever else needs doing.

However, likely this 1 month I will not do any driving at all - so I might leave it loose until next year's trip to Vancouver --- and do some more serious work on it then.

........so, anyway, I left it alone for a while - then blasted it with a heat gun, and the drum came off. Pretty messy inside there. One spring broken... drum is gouged..... backing plate heavily rusted. I also took a whole bunch of fotos under there > please feel free to comment. I only have one month here, and all I expect to do is deal with the structural rust, and make the interior livable....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

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You'll likely be replacing the drums (along with a lot of other stuff, it looks like), but it's smart to prepare the interface highlighted in red here.

It's generally a pretty tight fit, made worse over time by corrosion. So for future ease of removal, chuck a small sanding drum in a Dremel or other moto tool and gently clean up the lip of the center hole in the drum, down to new metal. Then lightly coat the lip with a little high-heat anti-seize compound when mounting the drum.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Jeffrey Lee wrote:
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You'll likely be replacing the drums (along with a lot of other stuff, it looks like), but it's smart to prepare the interface highlighted in red here.

It's generally a pretty tight fit, made worse over time by corrosion. So for future ease of removal, chuck a small sanding drum in a Dremel or other moto tool and gently clean up the lip of the center hole in the drum, down to new metal. Then lightly coat the lip with a little high-heat anti-seize compound when mounting the drum.


Good tip, thanks!

...what I am wondering about is what to do about those rusty trailing arms? Not so rusty as to replace them, but what to do about the rust inside them? ...I guess I can just spray WAX in there once a year... or maybe spray POR15 in there to buy some time?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

If the Bus is laid up, take them off and have them dipped, then POR or paint dip and you will get 10 more years out of them
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Or https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2275637

Sorry couldn’t help myself. Most vanagons I come across have completely coated undersides with a combination of engine oil, gear oil, and cv grease. Acts like a rust inhibitor.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on br.drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Nothing to do with your brake and trailing arm questions, but this photo is one of the best that I've ever seen showing the rubber plug into the body cavity located on either side of the back seat.

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I agree with the post above, pull off the trailing arm assemblies and clean them up properly for future rust prevention. Simply drowning them in POR 15 will do little IMHO.
You also want to know if there is enough metal left to be road worthy and not just treat paper thin metal.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

I have some rust in the area around those plugs also.

I took my trailing arms off to have them blasted and painted. Oh and I also removed the spring perch just to upgrade/check what was hiding underneath.

After they were done I sprayed quite a bit of fluid film inside the trailing arms. I'll do that every now and then.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9003289&highlight=#9003289
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

the picture with the red 10 ga. wire... that sure as heck looks like it was put in place instead of a battery cable sized ground strap. that must be changed ASAP or you can cause all sorts of strange things when cranking, like burning rear brake flex lines!! clean everything down to shiny metal of course.

you've soaked the brake bleed screw with penetrating oil. make sure you can get that loose before going too far with the brake job. by the looks, you'll need to heat it cherry red to orange to get that one out. replace with a new one of course.

it looks to have had a brake job before and since properly installed springs rarely break or fall off, find original rear brake diagrams posted here on Samba and meticulously follow how everything fits together. don't go by how it was on your van.

coming from MN, all that rust doesn't look too bad! just thought i'd offer a positive comment!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Thanx everyone.... I will similarly inspect all 4 wheels and areas before finalizing my plan.

More pics comin'
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

I got the hub off... my question now is what to do with these backing places - inside and out? I want to slow the rust. They are very solid still but covered in surface rust which I want to deal with... I won't be driving this van this year - I just want to protect it > next year I will do the brakes properly.

I am concerned that if I now pull all the hardware off and start scraping off the rust on the inside of the backing plate, it might get a lot of contamination into the bearings.....?? ….so before touching this further I'll wait for feedback.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

You're not driving it?

Removed the entire brake assembly and clean it up off the Van.

The backing plate comes off easily....well except for those rusted bolts! 😂

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

If you indeed only want to slow the rust, slip a plastic bag over the axle stub and bearing seal with a rubber band to keep debris out, then scrape and wire brush the plates, then spray with Waxoyl or WD-40. Wipe off any excess to avoid contaminating the brake drum & shoes.

If you in fact want to STOP the rust, remove all the brake hardware, remove the plates and have a local shop media blast them for a few bucks, then repaint.

Or, if they're too far gone and it's in the budget, just get new ones:
https://www.vancafe.com/251609425D-426D-p/251609425d-426d.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Hammering on brake drum with axle nut loose? Reply with quote

Jeffrey Lee wrote:
If you indeed only want to slow the rust, slip a plastic bag over the axle stub and bearing seal with a rubber band to keep debris out, then scrape and wire brush the plates, then spray with Waxoyl or WD-40. Wipe off any excess to avoid contaminating the brake drum & shoes.

If you in fact want to STOP the rust, remove all the brake hardware, remove the plates and have a local shop media blast them for a few bucks,

Then treat with Ospho, then neutralise with bicarb, rinse and
Quote:

then repaint.

Or, if they're too far gone and it's in the budget, just get new ones:
https://www.vancafe.com/251609425D-426D-p/251609425d-426d.htm

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