Hose beginning to crack in engine compartment

[Auzzyrocks]

Hello All,

I recently purchased an '84, and while replacing some of the ground connections, I noticed this happening to one of the hoses in the engine compartment:

It appears the hose has developed a crack, just outside of the clamp, around 1/3 of the circumference. This is one of the two large hoses that run along the front of the engine compartment, on top of everything else. The crack is where this hose runs into part of the engine block. You can see them in this image, here:

How potentially catostrophic is this? Do the hoses need to be replaced? Should I even drive it to the mechanics?


Some Additional information: Sunny had a rebuilt 1.9L engine put in less than 10 years ago by a previous owner. Around the same time the coolant system was rebuilt and 'upgraded', as was fuel injection, and exhaust. I don't have all the details on these modifications. I do have previous owners receipts for a plethora of new hoses and stainless steel pipes, both fuel and coolants.

All the fuel and coolant hoses in the engine compartment feel strong and are readily flexible/pliable...

I am aware that a coolant hose failure can be catastrophic. If one hose is cracking, should I be replacing all my fuel/coolant hoses to be safe? I am leaving on a 2 week road trip, in 3 weeks to the day. The good news is I will be taking Sunny in to the shop for a fluids change and anything else that will count towards reliability. I am willing to do whatever work necessary to avoid a catastrophic, engine damaging failure.

Unsure if this is related, but I also noticed there seems to be 'wet-spot' in the engine compartment, I ran my fingers through it and it was a sort of thick, grimy sludge:

The transmission, when seen from underneath, also appears to 'not-be-dry' but I don't have any fluid leaks whatsoever. Sorry if that is too much information! And thanks in advance for any help provided. Here are some additional engine photos that may help:

[/img]

[IdahoDoug]

I am going to make a massive assumption that if you've just purchased a 30+ year old vehicle and you're asking if a hose that badly aged needs replacing - you may not be a good candidate to own a 30+ year old vehicle. Especially if you plan to leave on a long road trip in 3 weeks with it. It may be the last ride for this old girl.

The good news is you can change your level of knowledge. And you need to do that. Fast.

Find a good mechanic, hand him or her the keys and repeat after me: "I know nothing about cars, but I have a deep pocket book and I want this vehicle prepped for a 2 week long road trip that starts in 3 weeks."

Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[goskiracer]

That coolant hose coming off your water pump is going to fail very soon, dumping most of your coolant on the road and putting an end to whatever driving was occurring. My knowledge of polymer fatigue failures is pretty low... but you've got between 1E-2 and 1E2 cycles before that thing lets go.

Can you drive it to the mechanic? Sure, maybe, no, how far is it? Will the van heat up and the coolant system get to pressure? Insert Clint Eastwood quote here. ***I *** would drive it to a shop around the corner if I didn't feel comfortable changing out the hose. But, it's not my van.

Light joking aside, the positive takeaway here is that you learned how critical it is to poke your head under the engine deck to check the condition of hoses, fluid levels, cracks, bolts, and connectors.

Draining the coolant, swapping the hose and refilling is something any Vanagon owner should take on as an intro unless you have very deep pockets and flexible schedules.

Pick up a hose, garden pump sprayer or Libby bong, 5 gal bucket, screwdriver, gloves, and coolant and have yourself a fun afternoon.
_________________
86' Syncro 2.2 Vanistan, WBXhaust, ski-pole shifter for +11hp

[Sodo]

Probably should post your location and ask for local recommendations for a “real Vanagon mechanic”. Any mechanic can change those deteriorating hoses you showed, but you will be better served by a “Vanagon mechanic” who can look at the other problem areas too. Such as your fuel lines.

If that radiator hose pops, and you don’t know it, and keep driving, you will destroy your engine in a few minutes. $5,000.

Old coolant, especially the “wrong type of coolant” causes expensive Vanagon problems, which show up (weeks from home). I’m stressing the need to search out a good local “Vanagon mechanic” to prepare for this trip.

If your ( old? Deteriorated? ) fuel lines leak gas, your van could burn up, a total loss.

Kudos for looking closely at your 30year old antique.
Kudos for posting pics here.
Don’t worry about the jokes, both Doug & goskiracer help people all the time on TheSamba. Doug is probably clearing out his shop right now for the off-chance that you might break down near N. Idaho. I think the problem is you posted explicit pics, and horrified them with your imminent roadtrip plans. Most new members try to describe a problem, without pics, and get a softer start. Yours cuts right to the chase.

It looks like you are in need of a local mechanic to give your van some immediate Roadworthiness maintenance. Maybe a Samba member in your area can recommend one. Vanagons and Vanagon mechanics are getting old ya know. If you break down on the road, far from a Vanagon mechanic, you will wish you solved the problem first, at home. And you can.

The oil in the transaxle should be changed. People don’t maintain their transaxles, cuz they don’t often fail suddenly. But the inattention and poor maintenance deletes 10s, 50s, 100,000 of miles of transaxle lifetime. Its so silly. Clean transaxle oil costs $16. Don’t put synthetic oil in that old Transaxle, you could actually shorten its life, just put clean GL4 or GL5 gear oil in. Don’t fuss about the oil or the brand, just get the contaminated oil out, the clean oil in. You can fuss at the next gear oil change (if you want).
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[djkeev]

[DanHoug]

one thing you can do before taking your van to the mechanic is buy a spray bottle of 'Purple Power' or whatever strong cleaner and really detail your engine bay. it is filthy and cleaning will help you get to know the engine and various bits and will greatly help your mechanic, thereby reducing your $$ bill.

you have a grand adventure ahead but think of it as starting out the trip with the mechanical equivalent of a $150 1985 Chrysler Le Baron. yes, you paid more than that and you have some recipts but all the bits are just as old and neglected. an engine rebuilt 10 years ago is just an engine without full documentation of the build.

as others have said, the GOOD NEWS is that you have a cool vehicle with really strong vendor and collective support. the knowledge base and willingness to help is there for any issue you want to tackle. it is up to you to either put the skinned knuckle time in your self or open the checkbook. both are valid.

Welcome to the Abyss!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Steve M.]

[dobryan]

If this were my bus I'd get a complete set of coolant hoses from a vendor and replace them all before your trip. They need it and you do not want to leave on a trip with those old hoses. I like the original style spring clamps since they do not bite into the hoses like that screw style clamp is doing.

You could clean the hose around the crack and wrap some rescue tape around the area to reinforce it for the trip to the mechanic.

I'd also have the fuel lines looked at and replaced if not fairly new.

Enjoy your bus and the trip. Bring your AAA card and keep us up to date.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[dabaron]

buy a Bentley when you order the hose and the fuel line replacement kit. the fuel lines may look or be new, but $70.00 buys a lot of piece of mind.

so right there is about $175.00 i've spent of your money. you're welcome.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo

BiWerks Design, LLC

[mikemtnbike]

My van came home on a flatbed twice because I did not replace my cooling components soon after I bought the van. Thermostat housing failed, little hose off the oil cooler failed. So, yes, get them all replaced asap, I also recommend doing the thermostat housing and the coolant manifold tower.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[Wildthings]

As mentioned your aged Vanagon has a pile of hoses and its cooling system will have a pile of other parts that can fail. You have a plastic expansion tank (pressure tank) and a plastic overflow tank, both of which can fail. You also have two long coolant pipes running front to back that can fail. Yours may be either ancient steel, brittle plastic, or aftermarket SS at this point in time. There are also a couple of plastic connectors in the engine compartment that get brittle with age.

The small manifolds you show pictures of are for your fuel injection system, the ones you have are not stock and should have good life. No fuel leaks are allowed though. The style of hose clamps you have are not the best though, you need ones specifically designed for FI which will not cut into the hoses so badly. Your fuel injection hoses should say SAE 30r9 on them somewhere indicating they are okay for FI use.

You should have AAA with 200 mile towing and be prepared to rent a truck and car trailer to get you rig back home if necessary. A "new to you" rig will likely have a pile of potential problem even if the previous owner wasn't having any, that is the way things always seem to go.

[Auzzyrocks]

Thank you all for the speedy and helpful responses.

I just got back from Concept 1 in Calgary (Simply amazing Vanagon parts/service shop) where I got every 1.9 coolant hose they have, replacement tank, cap, ect. They also carry the 1.9 Fuel line replacement kit, which I will be back for on Monday.

I did a ton of research before buying my van, and looked for a long time to find one that had most of the catastrophic areas looked after. The hoses have been a big fear for me... All the fuel and coolant hoses were supposedly all replaced, and the mechanic I brought with me was very impressed - but I've learned my lesson to look a lot closer, with my own eyes.

I live in Canada, and have the best AMA package you can get (Canadian AAA)...

Thank you Sodo for softening that rough landing a little, but I really do appreciate all your candid responses. I got into this hoping to do a lot of the work myself.. so, with an ignition switch replacement and new dist. cap/rotor as my collective experience, I guess it's time to dive into the cooling system...

I have been planning for a road-worthiness visit to the mechanic, which I bumped up today, in light of recent events. Hopefully they can catch anything I don't notice.. oh, and I'm going to clean that engine compartment till I can eat off of it. If there something else hiding, I'm going to know about it.

WildThings - thanks for pointing out the FI manifolds, good to know they are new! I do have SS pipes, and a Bentley manual. If only there was a way to check if the fuel hoses were replaced when the manifolds were. Oh well, peace of mind is worth a lot to me.

I've been reading up on the cooling hose swap, and there lots of great info on it - but if anyone has a helpful link handy, a few tips, or a preferred method, that would be greatly appreciated!

You all rock.
-A

[bettingonvans]

There is some useful information here that I think I looked at when I did this work. http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm

Mostly you need the hose chart in the Bently. There's some trick to getting at the hoses that run to/from the oil cooler. I think it's helpful to remove the oil cooler, and probably not a bad idea to replace the seal underneath it, they're known to blow, though more often in the cold I think. It's not much extra work to replace the water pump while you're at it. I would, but you could be in a hurry.

On a 2.1 you need to remove the plastic coolant junction to get at the hose at the P/S head. 1.9 is probably similar. Evaluate its condition when you remove it. Plastic and steel replacements are available, and old plastic does tend to get brittle.
_________________
1990 Westfalia, GW2.2, Peloquins TBD

[Auzzyrocks]

Thanks for the info- I'll be tackling this over the weekend!

I decided to go back and check the original advertisement for my van, and this is the cooling system information:

"Entire coolant system has been gone through including new radiator & hoses, coolant tank, and new steel pipes (vancafe) as well as new heater hoses and rear heater core"

I mistakenly took this to mean that the entire cooling system had new hoses - although, it wold seem that the hoses in the engine compartment are not included in the quote above....

I will still check each of the hoses and change every one I have the part for, but It seems that my issue is mostly confined to the engine bay. Please correct me if I am missing something glaring from the cooling system....


Furthermore, this is what is said about the fuel system:

"All fuel lines have been replaced, including return line, new aluminum fuel rails, fuel injector hoses, and gas tank resealing kit (GoWesty)"

This information is from 2013, and is the advertisement that the PO purchased the van from. The purchase receipts for the cooling system components are 2011. I would expect to get more than 8 years from new hoses, so I am assuming that the engine hoses weren't changed at this time, but (hopefully!) the rest of them were. Time to trace down the every little hose and see if they were actually replaced or not :S

[Wildthings]

If you are replacing the Expansion tank (pressure tank) you might go ahead and spring for a metal tank from Rocky Mountain Westy or others. It has a couple of advantages, one it will not crack on you and two it uses a very commonly available cap verses the odd VW style cap.

I think that spring clamp kits for the radiator hoses are available, maybe check with Go Westy. Maybe others will add their sources here.

[raoul mitgong]

If you get a failure in a hose like that on the road, you can usually cut off the part damaged by the clamp, reclamp, refill, and get home.
-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[DanHoug]

[dobryan]

Since those 'new' hoses are now 8 years old I'd have my mechanic replace them with proper new ones so you know you are good to go for many years.... YMMV.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Love My Westy]

I bought my van new in 1986, but within a few years I was talking to other owners who were already on their 2nd engine. The common story was that for one reason or another they had lost their coolant and just refilled it with water, not realizing the needed to bleed the coolant system properly before driving.

I made up my mind that if I ever lost coolant, which I did once when the water pump went bad, that I would just call a wrecker and have it towed in to a shop.

... Still driving with that same motor today.

[mg93108]

The important thing to realize is that this is not a new vehicle.
And it can't be viewed in the same light as a 2000-something vehicle.

Unless you paid over $35,000...you need to know that it's not going to be perfect and it will definitely need work. It isn't that you got "ripped off"...it's that it's a 35 year old vehicle. You WILL need to work on it. And you WILL need to spend money.

But on the good side...if you are going to hang on to this van, then all of the work you are going to do will most likely for a very long time.
If you look at it as an "investment", you'll be better.
If you're surprised that your Westy needs a repair, then you will be very disappointed.