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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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 Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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This afternoon after a little drive I park up and see a stream of brake fluid leaking from my rear wheel, seems like the little pin, spring and cups that hold the shoes in place had popped out, also, looking at the pistons in the cylinder, there seems to be no rubber seal on either of them?
Anyway, the rear end is a weird mishmash of oval bug, type 3, and obviously split bus, so I'm trying to figure out how to identify what I have on there so I can replace them.
Any pointers? |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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Good point - here we go:
Shoes are 40mm wide, the bare cylinder, as seem above is 59mm long.
Thanks in advance! |
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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Guy at VWHeritage here in the UK sent me some info:
"So if you have a bore size of the wheel cylinders at 23.8mm then you may have a type 3 rear
so you would need wheel cylinders 2x 361611067A or the same in best quality 361611067AATE
If you have beetle rear brakes the wheels cylinders will be 17 or 19mm bore size
Early beetle wheel cylinders up to 57 had two mounting bolts and 30mm shoes
Beetle 57 onwards had 1 mounting bolt and 40mm shoes and couple of wheel cylinder versions.
Type 3 shoes are 45mm"
Looks like I have post '57 Type 1 Cylinders  |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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most type 3 rears were 22mm same as super beetle fronts (literally the same exact wheel cylinder)
the 23.8 was a heavy duty squareback only (hence the 36 part number, 36=squareback)
you do not want bug rear brakes on your bus. If it's lowered, you should change to type 3 drums/backing plates/shoes/wheel cylinders or go disc
_________________
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| Erik G wrote: |
you do not want bug rear brakes on your bus. If it's lowered, you should change to type 3 drums/backing plates/shoes/wheel cylinders or go disc |
Sounds like the way to go, apart from the fact that backing plates are hard to get hold of.
I'm trying to cast my mind back to when I last did the brakes, as I have a vague memory of getting new drums and there being an issue with fitting them and being told over the phone that I probably had type 3 drums. Did I then buy type 1 backing plates, shoes and cylinders to go with the new drums? Seems like a foolish choice if I did... I'm assuming that type 1 drums would not fit on the larger type 3 backing plates.
I'll have a rummage around in my parts box and see if there's a stray pair of plates in there...
In the meantime, would 19mm cylinders and the current 40mm shoes be at least a step up from the 17mm cylinder that's in there now? |
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Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| Mr Margaret Scratcher wrote: |
Good point - here we go:
.........! |
If the little tabs are broken off the stars can de- adjust them selves and the cylinders can pop out.
Make sure the tabs are not broken, and hold the stars from spinning.
This has good tabs, 3/4 rear bus brakes
bus 1 ton rear:
#18:
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| Clara wrote: |
If the little tabs are broken off the stars can de- adjust them selves and the cylinders can pop out.
Make sure the tabs are not broken, and hold the stars from spinning.
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Cheers I'll have a little look in the morning. |
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orangebug60guy
Twin #1
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: South Hadley Mass
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| Clara wrote: |
| Mr Margaret Scratcher wrote: |
Good point - here we go:
.........! |
If the little tabs are broken off the stars can de- adjust them selves and the cylinders can pop out.
Make sure the tabs are not broken, and hold the stars from spinning.
This has good tabs, 3/4 rear bus brakes
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This picture of dirty, filthy, poorly maintained brakes drums is funny. Does it make you laugh Clara? Because it took me a second to see the adjusting star tab that you were pointing out.
What is the benefit of trying to find the right brake cylinders to rebuild old stuff? The part is NLA right? Old ones/piecing miss matched parts might be rusted....the wrong size...rubber gaskets might not seal....the list goes on. Buy new brake cylinders and find the best possible replacements. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| orangebug60guy wrote: |
This picture of dirty, filthy, poorly maintained brakes drums is funny. Does it make you laugh Clara? Because it took me a second to see the adjusting star tab that you were pointing out.
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That was the first pic I found in the gallery that showed the tabs. It was on a bus I was getting going- it had sat for years. No, it did not make me laugh, why would it? Do you expect a field bus that sat for years to have clean, new brakes?  I've pulled a lot of drums, never found it funny. Odd thing to say.
I was glad it had the tabs.
I did smile to see 40hp Nate (who is in the pic.) I hadn't seen him for a while, and randomly ran into his father in law recently. But unless you know Nate, that wouldn't mean anything to you. I am not sure what your point is. The tabs are the same whether greasy or dry, clean or dirty. I added more pics, to make it easier to see.
I have the feeling that sometimes people don't know the tabs are supposed to be there. If you drive w/o tabs, and the cylinders pop out, it can mean you lose the brakes, unsafe.
My point was to remind people to check for good tabs when doing a brake job. |
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| Clara wrote: |
I have the feeling that sometimes people don't know the tabs are supposed to be there. If you drive w/o tabs, and the cylinders pop out, it can mean you lose the brakes, unsafe.
My point was to remind people to check for good tabs when doing a brake job. |
Yep, sure enough that tab isn't there, I'll be sure to replace that on both sides. As I said, also both the pin/spring/cup dealies that go through the shoes and backing plates were also just bouncing around loose inside the drum too.
The other mystery is where the piston seals have gone - as you can see from my pic there's just a metal ring (with a gap!) but no sign of a seal...  |
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Cambridge UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Identifying rear wheel cylinders |
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| orangebug60guy wrote: |
What is the benefit of trying to find the right brake cylinders to rebuild old stuff? The part is NLA right? Old ones/piecing miss matched parts might be rusted....the wrong size...rubber gaskets might not seal....the list goes on. |
Nobody is talking about rebuilding cylinders.
| orangebug60guy wrote: |
| Buy new brake cylinders and find the best possible replacements. |
That's literally what I'm trying to do. |
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