Fitting Axles... but Nothing Fits!

[Peter D.]

So I'm learning the hard way that fitting the swing axles wont be as easy as I thought! In fact, it's a total PITA! I'm a novice at this an I'm also using a combination of new and old parts to bear with me.

My car is a 64 Ghia with a rebuilt pro-street transaxle.

#1)The driver's side axle tube fits well (new side cover) but I'm having trouble with the passenger side. With two gaskets its too tight all around. With three gaskets it binds on one side a little but has an almost free range up and down movement in the direction of tube travel once installed in the car. With four gaskets, no binding, but feels very lose all around. Also there's 1mm inner and outer move of the entire tube. I've tried every combination of paper gasket and I'm starting the think the side retainer is warped. But I put a straight edge on it and it looks flat.

#2) The other problem is with my used axles with new side gears and fulcrum plate. I can't get the axles into the side gear at all. The axles were sand blasted and the spade end isn't shiny or polished anymore so I think I need to wet sand it down? Radius the edges?

#3) Also, big problem: the new side gears will go about half way into the transaxle but stop. I took both snap rings out and there's no thrust washer or anything in the way. For what it's worth, the old side gears won't go in either. What the trick, hammer it in?!

If all else fails, there's a VW shop in next town over, but I'd rather do it myself. I've got all my parts lined up and ready go but they're just sadly collecting dust!

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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[slalombuggy]

Make sure the spider gears are pushed all the way back against the diff housing or else the side gears wont go in all the way.

I assemble the axle and plates into the side gearon the bench and then slide it into the transaxle. I grease up the parts good to hold them together till I get the snap ring in.

brad

[Casting Timmy]

Not big into the swing axles, but the spiders have to be out and clocked right for the side gear to go in. I get the gears out and then usually a little rotating of the side gear will get it to drop into place. The second side gear will go in easier and faster, but most likely still need some turning to get it clocked right.

The axles into the side gears sound weird to me. Most people polish the ends, that would be preferred. Knock the sharps edges off the side if there are and round the corners of the fulcrum plates. Radius the 4 corners but be sure that it keeps a good amount of the sides to locate side to side.

Most use grease to keep the fulcrum plates in position so you can put the axle in place. If you really want to get fancy they do make transmission grease designed to melt away when it gets warm so that oil will get in there fast.

I'd probably go with just a little rub and it will break in fine on the axle tubes.

Not a swinger, but there are also some youtube videos out there and other threads here on thesamba with more info.
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T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)

[Peter D.]

Awesome, thanks guys. I monkeyed around with it for hours yesterday... taking a break today and will attack it fresh later with updates to follow (or as my son said, turn it off and reboot, LOL).
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[gears]

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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Peter D.]

Thanks for the instructions!

Okay, well oddly enough, when I mix and match the fulcrum plates (new kind with the slots on the face) I can get the axles into the side gears just fine. That's progress. On one axle though it's kind of tight, I can just get the .05mm feeler in there. Would it be a crazy idea to lightly wet sand the face with 400 grit?

I tried test fitting the side gear by rotating and I still can't get it past the dome of the transaxle. I'm going to call my builder today.

I'm working with a superdiff and the gears have 17 teeth... I don't know if that's an issue or not since I'm pretty green at this... obviously!
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[Casting Timmy]

Super diffs are a little more of a pain as you need all 4 spiders to be aligned right for the gear to fully seat into position. There's always that one spider gear that decides to not position itself and mess with your head somedays. I'd try and see if you can reach in from the other side with your hand, or try and get both gears in at the same time with rotating and pushing them in by hand. Or use the wooden end of your hammer to try and spin or stop certain spider gears from spinning so it goes in all the way.

Once you get one side gear in the other will be really easy. Just always try and leave one of the side gears in once you get it figured out for future reference as it makes it easier as opposed to taking both out and fighting all the gears.
_________________
T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)

[Peter D.]

Okay, thanks... steep learning curve on this one. I spoke to my transaxle builder this morning and he said that test fitting the side gears by themselves wouldn't work. I've got to get the axles in and spin it from the shaft. Rotating from the other side is a good idea too.

The passenger side axle is still giving me problems. It's either slightly binding on one side or if I add a gasket it feels loose. There's also play in and out. Once the drum is torqued down, won't the axle be held in place from wiggling in and out or am I fooling myself? Cuz then I need to find a new axle and the one I have is nicely painted.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[TinCanFab]

Im assuming you are doing rear disc brakes based off your picture, and the big aluminum caliper brackets? This has nothing to do with this topic, but you may need different bearing caps. When I did my CB rear brakes years ago, I noticed gear oil was making its way to the axle nut and lightly spraying out onto the rotor hub. I went back and looked at the instructions and I was using the early, open style bearing cap like you have. The pictures didn't specify what cap was correct for the kit- but it looked like the late style. I changed it (not sure what the exact cap# I used), but I havent had a chance to drive the car yet.

Double check, but I think you are supposed to use the late style cap that holds the slinger washer captive inside
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Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood

They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092

[Peter D.]

You know, this issue has been on my mind... I bought the Empi rear disk conversion from JBugs. In their youtube video they reuse the original style '63 bearing cap. I'll send them an email and see what they say. Obviously an oil slinger won't work here. I'm wondering if any oil does dribble out if it will go onto the back of the disc. If I have to track down new bearing caps now, after cleaning up, painting, and installing a seal in the old ones, I'll scream!
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[Casting Timmy]

Check and see if you brake brackets are the same thickness as the stock backing plates. Hopefully they are as you won't have to worry about things.

if the brackets are thicker than the stock backing plates, some will machine the brackets to be the same thickness as the stock back plates if they don't match, or you can machine the difference off of the bearing cap...…….or if you're extremely lucky a different stock bearing cap is the depth you need.
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T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)

[Peter D.]

Well, the good news is that the new and old backing plates are 5mm thick. And the tech at JBugs says my original bear caps should work fine.

This weekend I'm going to radius the axle spade ends and make another attempt at getting this assembled once and for all. I might practice on the old axles first to get a feel for it.
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[Peter D.]

I pulled out these old junk axles to practice putting a radius on the edges. I watched Geno Boyd's youtube video but he doesn't get close enough to show the details for a novice like me.

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right or if I should be more or less aggressive. Looks like I went to far on one corner?!

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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[Casting Timmy]

Good to practice, I'd probably go more for buffing or something less aggressive. try and think how they break and sand 90 degrees so you don't make a stress riser. IE I'd try and put my sanding marks parallel with the shaft
_________________
T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)

[Peter D.]

Okay, thanks. I was surprised how much metal came off very quickly with the grinder. I'll try a softer disc or maybe a hand file. Maybe more of a curve to it than a harsh angle?
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[nsracing]

You should not have to remove any material at all off the dogbone. If the axles are old and the fulcrums are old and they go in the same end gears ---why are you clearancing anything?

Also, if it is a new differential housing - make sure you have the proper spider gears, drop the end gears in there and see how they turn. You do this while the whole diff is outside the case. You can then find the proper fulcrums that give the best clearance or play on which axles goes where.

As far as the tubings are concerned - I like them on the snug side. You should still be able to move them up and down. But they should not be loose and banging. Find which plastic piece gives the best fit.

Enjoy.

[Peter D.]

Thanks for that... the axles are used but the fulcrums and side gears are new. But yes, maybe I shouldn't be messing with it? So far I haven't actually touched the old axles.

When I test fit the axles, fulcrum, and side gear, the clearances are really tight. I thought or read that putting a radius on the axles would avoid chewing things up. I guess that's not right?

In other news, was able to hammer the axle retainer back into shape so it's no longer binding. I've figured out the right number of gaskets and now there's no more end play. Hooray!

I'm hoping to get it together this weekend now that I've gotten so much great advice and I finally have a clue! (sort of)
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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[Peter D.]

Okay, I know I'm really green at this/clueless but I'm still not able to get these side gears in!

In fact, the teeth of the side gear don''t even make contact with the spinning gears inside the differential. The whole side gear seems to get hung up half-way in and won't go down. I spun it around for five minutes, tapped lightly with a mallet, tapped harder with a hammer, but no success.

Am I doing this wrong or do I have the wrong parts? Are there different side gears for super-diffs or should I have this one machined? Should I smash it in with a gorilla hammer?

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2019 Golf Alltrack, '65 Ghia Coupe Restoration in Progress

[66brm]

Try rolling the side gear on a flat surface, may have a high spot, or does it feel like it's coming up hard against something?
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Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval

[Casting Timmy]

The side gear is just entering the diff or hung up on the clip grove. Sometimes you can get a burr that makes it hard to drop it in place. Be careful checking for that burr.

If you can put your hand in the bottom side and hold it still a little while spinning on the top side.
_________________
T1 IRS Rebuild Book on Lulu.com
http://www.lulu.com/shop/tim-marshall/t1-irs-transaxle-book/paperback/product-24055997.html
As seen in Volks America Issue 14 Page 11 (Full page review)