What's the highest towing capacity for vanagon vs. syncro

[pineapplejellybeans]

Hi all,
i'm trying to upgrade from a 71 bus to a new van and looking for a high weight capacity plus high towing capacity for a mid size van.
I really love vanagons and syncros and am open to other types similar.
Does anyone know what van might be able to tow the best?
or maybe better with a suburu engine or something like that?

I would be using it mainly as a daily driver, but every now and then (3-8x a year) i would need to tow (2-4k lbs) and it would be nice to do it without having to rent a vehicle each time.

[Waldi]

A 2wd can hook up 2t and a Syncro 2,5t
No need for a other engine than 95hp wbx or JX.
But you need to modify the engine cooling.

[0to60in6min]

[Corwyn]

Beyond the hitch weight limit, it's not what you can PULL so much as what you can STOP.
_________________
'90 White Westy ("The Longship")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja

"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

[Sodo]

Towing capacity drops as a function of vehicle age.
Exponentially.
VW specified 2T & 2.5T but do they specify for how many miles the van can do this?
2T and 2.5T is when the van is new, and they do not tell you how many miles the van can do this.
Because they don't know "the duty" ---- is it every day or once per year?
They cannot know.
It would be interesting if anyone knows if VW's published service intervals for "commercial use".
You should assume the 2T and 2.5Tonne are when the van is "MFR new condition" (or perhaps under a commercial usage maintenance program.)

30 years later, things are very much different.
Many parts in a 30-year old transaxle that you buy, are "worn out".

Driveline parts get used up faster with towing (as with a big engine).
The cost per mile will climb faster than the benefits you receive from towing with your own vehicle.
Recommend to choose a tow vehicle with higher capacity that is built for towing, one that you can just "sell" when done.
Not a Syncro which has very high "collector value" and high cost of ownership.

If your van has more than 100,000 miles, don't do it, your parts are on their downhill slope.
Plus, VW recommended that owners don't change gear oil, so all the transaxles are quite 'injured' by the history of (mfr recommended ! ) ---> 'non-maintenance'.
Which many owners complied with, very likely the previous owner of your van did not maintain the transaxle.
And then subsequent owners continue this 'custom'.
They buy the cheapest rebuild they can get, beat-down the rebuilder's price, ignore the condition of the lubricant.
They hang big engines with double HP on the old transaxle and then refer to the trans as "$$YNCRO".
Well it IS a 90HP transaxle. But 2X HP, without 4X maintenance, is clearly going to equal 8X $$$$YNCRO.
Plus other offenses (lead foot, heavy weight, beating down the rebuilder, old age, and NLA parts, and replacement part quality).
Very likely the Syncro you find will have endured this kind of "transaxle history" and now you wanna ADD towing to the long list of offenses?

If you plan to keep your van for a long time, don't do it.
Several important driveline parts are no longer manufactured, thus you have to rely on aftermarket parts for rebuilds, which cost towards $5,000.
Your transaxle may already have these aftermarket rebuilt parts inside, which don't have the lifetime expectancy of the OEM parts.
And it may have a bunch of parts that have already run 200, 300,000 miles.

Waldi is not afraid of towing because he owns a transmission rebuild shop, and can rebuild at the drop of a hat.
This is an interesting perspective, because if you can do your own maintenance you can do a lot of non-standard things with your rare antique vehicle.
It's not the greatest advice for "normal" Vanagon owners.

I have towed about 1,000 lbs with my Syncro a few times.
Lots of Vanagon owners who load up their vans to 6,000 lbs have transmission trouble (but there's the 'maintenance issues exacerbating the problem).
I suggest you try to find someone who will demonstrate what it's like towing 2,000 lbs with a Vanagon, before you try purchasing a Van for ---->up to 4,000 lbs. Try towing 2,000 lbs with your '71 bus that might give an idea what 3,000 with a Vanagon might be. Of course AWD will FEEL better, but ....
And it depends where (Florida or Colorado?) and how far is this tow?
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[E1]

Agree 200%.

When people ask what we can tow with our One-Niner powerhouse of necksnap, I answer "a chain."
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[danfromsyr]

can they? sure
should they? depends
how far?
how fast?
how much tongue weight?
how steep going up? how steep going down?


2~4,ooo#'s

I really wouldn't recommend it.

and this is me..

I rent when I can, I tow when I HAVE to.

[jismay]

I've towed ~1500lbs of trailer and motorcycle behind my aircooled van from SoCal to Flagstaff to Grand Canyon and back without any problems.

I've also had a few different motocycles on hitch carriers including over some relatively rough dirt roads without any problems.

Above the ~1500-2000lbs I've towed I'd want trailer brakes and a good brake controller, but that goes for towing more than 2K lbs regardless of tow vehicle.

With the lighter trailers I've towed so far in multiple vehicles I've never felt the need for upgraded brakes. I'm sure they would help, but not really a neccesity.
_________________
1970 Squareback with 1915cc dual 40idf
1979 Beetle Convertible
1980 Vanagon Westfalia
1989 VW Cabriolet

[Sodo]

Agreed, 95% of the time additional braking is not necessary.
They only help under the conditions where the Vanagon brakes aren't enough, the rest of the time they do nothing.
When you have 800 lbs of human butts on-board, loaded for a 4-day camping weekend and someone pulls out in front of you, or you don't see a stop sign that's obscured by bushes etc.

That's "braking capacity" in a nutshell.

There's a lot of "hope" required.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Zeitgeist 13]

With all this talk of normal Vanagon owners, I've come to the sad realization that I'm an abnormal Vanagon owner. I got my brain from that other jar.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[MsTaboo]

[Sodo]

[ZsZ]

[Waldi]

Here is the limit for unbreaked trailers 600kg.
All my trailers have a auto push break.
I drive 80% with trailer up to 2500kg.
The first 100k km with a JX, after 200k km with AAZ.
The AAZ has now 420k km. The white syncro is ready to get some welding, new engine, gearbox check.
Now i do the same with mTDI orange Syncro.

Sodo, VW also dont say how long you can drive allways full speed without trailer.
Its not the engine, weight, trailer that effekt the durability, its the driver.
He is responsible for the setup and the used power.

Edit:
Here in Germany the Syncro came out with 2000kg trailer weight.
Later they did a stronger hook 12.9 and VW gave free up to 2500kg, but only up to 10% steep roads.
The Syncro is allowed to pull more than the 2wd because of the G-Gear.
The overall weight van+trailer is limited to 4500kg.
So you need a really light Syncro (like mines) to be allowed to pull 2500kg.

[Steve M.]

[tjet]

[fxr]

All complicated by:
1000kg = 1 tonne = ~2200lb = 1.1 US ton. Then there's the Imperial ton at 2240lb...

Oh the wonders of units conversions.
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[Waldi]

[danfromsyr]

the proper HD westfalia made vanagon tow hitch goes in deeper and grabs 3 bolts per side.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-VW-Volkswagen-Va...3635275035

[Sodo]