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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: Lift spindles... |
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I just rebuilt my beam front end and installed some lift spindles from Latest Rage, I asked around and was told that they were a decent product. I have Tweed trailing arms and the new spindles bolted up using the correct number of shims no problem. However, I just mounted my rims to the hubs and the amount of negative camber I have is way more than I wanted. I have read all the other threads about shimming link pins and was a VW mechanic in a former life. My question is, are the shims just for adjusting gaps and fitting the spindles or are they also for grease control and allowing the spindle bushings / link pins to move smoothly? I'm considering re shimming to adjust the camber and ignoring the factory shim numbers. Gil
Last edited by gilmarlin on Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12815 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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The shims are for setting the camber, the "factory" shim numbers are strictly for adjusting the kingpin angle. If it's too far out, you will start to bind & wallow the link pin bushings as you start to cant the pins in the bushings.
If the specs are way off, you have a problem with one or all of the aftermarket components. remove the spindles & take your measurements at the trailing arms, if the measurements are within spec here, your problem is at the spindles. If not, your arms or beam is the culprit. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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Shim chart is for factory spindles, most aftermarket ones have camber built into them. Heres how mine sits after playing musical shims a few times, I choose to stop vs screwing up the bushings on the spindles.
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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The trailing arms have an acceptable off set and the stub axle on the spindle appeared to have enough angle on it to place the wheels close to vertical when I installed them. With the wheels on, it looks almost like I would need the trailing arms to be the same with no offset between them for the wheels to sit properly. I had Tweed spindles before and had just a little negative camber which is what I want.
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Cody Loren Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2018 Posts: 118 Location: Cucamonga ca
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Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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I’m pretty sure those spindles have a couple degrees of camber built in.
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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Yes they do, but the way it sits right now it looks like a sprint car... ;d |
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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Okay, I'm done and not real happy. I've talked with my off road mechanic and some well known off road friends and the only answer they can give is I'm stuck with what I have. I can add shims to the top and get 2 degrees, but then everything begins to bind as I tighten things up. Here's some pictures, I had a fat 6mm of off set on both sides, I shimmed the bottom with 4 on the inside and 4 on the outside, the top with 3 on the inside and 5 on the outside, all per the chart. Nothing is bent and all measurements were taken with the beam exactly level and I get a 4 degree reading on the wheel and tires.
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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I bought a set of 3" lift link pin spindles from Dans Off Road. They are in fact Latest Rage spindles. Dan did mention there is a few degrees camber built into the spindles. _________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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The ones I got are at 4 degrees, not 2. The spindles are not manufactured correctly. I should have saved my money and bought some American made ones that are built to advertised specifications.. |
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Mike E. Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2019 Posts: 110 Location: Torrance, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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gilmarlin wrote: |
The ones I got are at 4 degrees, not 2. The spindles are not manufactured correctly. I should have saved my money and bought some American made ones that are built to advertised specifications.. |
I'm glad I read your story. I was considering the Latest Rage spindles to replace the Tweed set I have. The Tweeds have worn King Pins because the Previous owner really screwed up the set-up and didn't maintain them. The Tweed King Pins are not available anymore.
Is it possible that your problem could be fixed with King Pins, meaning is the angle of the link pin hole off or does the forging actually have camber in it? I guess you could measure the angle between the spindle spud and the king pin. Just an idea.
I feel your frustration and I hope you are able to get this thing set-up so you can get out and enjoy it. |
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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My tweed spindles had worn link pin bushings that are no longer available, so I went with the Latest Rage ones. I don't see a way to accurately measure what's built in to them and the guy at Latest Rage here in San Diego is of no help at all. He just has parts copied and sells them. No service, no instructions and he makes you feel like an idiot if you ask a question. I guess you get what you pay for... |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 594 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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Put two gauge blocks under the link pin bushings and then measure the spindle nose angle from those, pretty easy to see what's built into them then.
3-4 degrees of front camber wouldn't worry me unless it's mainly a roadgoing rail anyway. |
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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I do run pavement occasionally and the way it sits, my tires would wear out quickly. I drove the car around the block yesterday and the wheels scrub and squeak when I turn hard. I had no issues like that with the Tweed spindles.
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JPro62 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2012 Posts: 98 Location: Hamden, CT
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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I'm new to baja bugs. My current bug was built for autocrossing and I have decided to go towards baja with it now. I have CB Performance (4280 kit)dropped spindle disc brakes. Do they make a lift spindle or normal height spindle that can accept the disc brakes or do I need to convert those over as well? _________________ 1962 Beetle
1974 Super Beetle (Sold) |
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FlannelShirtGuy Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2019 Posts: 63 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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JPro62 wrote: |
I'm new to baja bugs. My current bug was built for autocrossing and I have decided to go towards baja with it now. I have CB Performance (4280 kit)dropped spindle disc brakes. Do they make a lift spindle or normal height spindle that can accept the disc brakes or do I need to convert those over as well? |
Get some Thing spindles and arms. It will lift it and you can use disc brakes no problem. |
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JPro62 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2012 Posts: 98 Location: Hamden, CT
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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FlannelShirtGuy wrote: |
JPro62 wrote: |
I'm new to baja bugs. My current bug was built for autocrossing and I have decided to go towards baja with it now. I have CB Performance (4280 kit)dropped spindle disc brakes. Do they make a lift spindle or normal height spindle that can accept the disc brakes or do I need to convert those over as well? |
Get some Thing spindles and arms. It will lift it and you can use disc brakes no problem. |
Thing spindles won't work since the car is link pin. Did Ghia's ever come with link-pin front ends? _________________ 1962 Beetle
1974 Super Beetle (Sold) |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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I put a set of the Latest Rage combo spindles (stock height) on my buggy a few months back.
I am using a aftermarket stock width beam and stock front trailing arms.
Camber is Zero (0) degrees with them.
For disc brakes you need them combo spindles. The bolt pattern for the caliper bracket is the same as a Ball Joint backing plate
Spindle uses link pin size nut to hold wheel bearings in place
Tie rod ends are International Truck size.
I am using JaMar (2 piston, 2in size pad) disc brakes on the front.
Suspension travel is 10-1/2in with a 8in travel FOX shock
I also went with a SACO rack and pinion for steering.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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tobiism Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004 Posts: 502 Location: Chandler AZ
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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gilmarlin wrote: |
I do run pavement occasionally and the way it sits, my tires would wear out quickly. I drove the car around the block yesterday and the wheels scrub and squeak when I turn hard. I had no issues like that with the Tweed spindles.
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My advice? Take your Tweeds spindles to a local machinist. Have them make a new set of bushings. If its just the bushings that are worn they are EASY to make. _________________ "There has never been a genius without a hint of madness."
-Albert Einstein |
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gilmarlin Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019 Posts: 47 Location: LA MESA
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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That's what I'm in the process of doing, I ordered some 18mm i.d. bushings without the grease grooves from Saco. I'm having the o.d. turned down to an interference fit. The link pin bushings for the Latest Rage spindles I got went in basically by pushing hard on them, another thing I wasn't too happy about. Anyone want to buy some raised spindles? Never used, 4.5 degrees of built in negative camber, link pin bushings included... |
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rayjay Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008 Posts: 1501 Location: Buford GA
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Lift spindles... |
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gilmarlin wrote: |
I do run pavement occasionally and the way it sits, my tires would wear out quickly. I drove the car around the block yesterday and the wheels scrub and squeak when I turn hard. I had no issues like that with the Tweed spindles.
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They are already on there, take it out in the dirt and see how they do. Might surprise you . Look at a beam front suspended car going through a turn. Notice how the tire leans just as much as the frame. On any sort of turn you are steering on the outside edge of the tire. With all this extra camber in a turn your tire is now flat or even on the inner edge just a bit which is far preferred to being on the outside edge. |
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